This contains just some minutes. Main project page here.
Tuesday October 16, 2018
Participants
- Lars Kurth
- Dmitry Morozov)
- Anup Patel
- Artem Mygaiev
- Kai Lampka
- Dmitry Morozov
- Gunnar
- Franz Walkembach
- Matt Spencer
- Vasco Fachin
- Alex Agizim
Apologies
- Bernhard Rill
- Philippe
- Sang-Bum Suh
Minutes
Quick de-brief
Gunnar: Questions coming up after ARM presentation?
Artem: No immediate questions from me. Julien is main ARM Xen maintainer - he is reviewing the material.
...but it would be interesting if we can come up with a bit more use-cases than the one mentioned in the presentation.
Gunnar: Agreed, I'd like to extend that question to all the HV vendors. Please give your opinion at a later meeting (on where you might like to use the secure execution modes).
Franz: It's generally a good whitepaper. I believe it is quite heavily downloaded also.
Gunnar: Please discuss with all your technical experts in the companies about useage of this, since when we start thinking of usage maybe the ideas we then have will impact the API standards work.
Gunnar: I guess we have crypto listed in our table. That's one, but maybe more.
Artem: Yes, and that is our position [...that cryptography should be implemented in trusted execution environment]. Specifically TEE, should run in the TrustZone mode(s).
Gunnar: Going through the table to see where we stand. Are all topics being covered.
...can we bring any to some final conclusion.
... vIOMMU.
Dmitry: some code proposals but for various reasons it seems it will not make it into mainline Linux. Performance is slow. But there are no known use-cases in Automotive?
... CAN
Franz has linked a virtio-can driver
Anup: This is the frontend driver. I believe the backend was implemented in XVisor but was never sent upstream to me.
(more discussion)
Artem: I think we found little need to virtualize. Actual CAN access is typically implemented in another CPU. Perhaps for sniffing / logging purposes [but that's so simple that you don't need a full stack]
Gunnar: Yes, I have also mostly seen designs where there is a separate Vehicle Interface Processor, or at least a separate core on SoC.
Artem / others: The conclusion might be that there is little need to virtualize CAN. USB might be similar but on the other hand it supports virtualization.
Gunnar: Sure and this might be the conclusion... I can imagine some chapters [in a virtual platform specification] would just make this conclusion and perhaps point to some reference (in this case virtio-can) if someone feels the need to go beyond that.
Continued general discussion
Lars: We should pick one or two easy ones and not try to reach the answer for each.
Gunnar: Agree, . I'm asking about them here but mostly it is the intention of going through the list, to see where we stand... to find simpler ones to start with.
Anup: I think watchdog is important and also Random Number Generator. Virtio has a proposal for RNG but not watchdog.
Gunnar: We might discuss RNG under "crypto" but it's not the only usage so let's just add it separately. Everyone, feel free to add to the list!
GPU...
Gunnar: I think we need to get Matti and Nikola together to finalize discussion on the feasibility of 3D API standards. For 2D everyone seemed to agree that VIRTIO should work. For 3D, I think there are nuances we need to cover. It's never all or nothing - we should be able to find some common parts (API and/or code).
9pfs...
Gunnar / Lars / other discussing. It seems we can wrap it up with the conclusion that we don't see a strong use in Auto/Embedded. Gunnar: I'd be fine with that - we should cover the most common systems. I would write an initial "chapter" on this as an example. But that's mostly a "negative" example [i.e. documenting that it is out of scope]. Now we need also find a positive one, which is needed and where the API standard is decided.
Lars: (For Xen) we only needed it to support running containers. I don't think it plays a part in server virtualization since there are so many other network protocols like NFS (and the VMs communicate between each other using those). As soon as you set up networking, any network filesystem protocol works.
Gunnar: My perception is that [in relation to virtio] this is from VM to hypervisor/host, and that only makes sense in Desktop - VirtualBox/VMWare Workstation, etc. As a standard I imagined NFS would be too big/complicated (to use as API to/from a hypervisor)
AI: All participants asked to:
1. Come to a (personal) proposal for your section and document this (is VIRTIO adequate, what else is needed, etc. The process that is mentioned on working page
2. If we feel uncertain, e.g. must have more use-cases, write that down. What is required for you to reach the point of 1.
Gunnar adjourned the meeting with the idea that today's discussion was preparing us for getting this done (starting with one or two simple
AI (Anup): Pick a topic to lead. A free one, or you can also add to one that already has a name.
October 11, 2018 - Tech summit working session in Bangalore, with phone conference
October 9, 2018 - No phone conference because of tech summit
Tuesday October 2, 2018
Participants
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