This contains meeting minutes. If meetings are cancelled this would be noted here. Some dates are missing minutes but ideas are always captured on the main project pages here.
Minute takers according to this page
March 30
Participants
- Bernhard Rill
- Peter Schreitl
- Adam Lackorzynski
- Dmitry Sepp
- Matti Möll
- Gunnar
Minutes
...
March 24
Whitepaper work and AVPS prioritization
Minutes pending
March 16
Whitepaper work and AVPS prioritization
Minutes pending
March 9
Participants:
- Dmitry
- Kai
- Adam
- Peter
- Michael
- Gunnar
- Philippe
...
- But should we also include challenges that are added as a result of choosing virtualization?
For example shared-memory as discussed in the comment by Michael on Whitepaper - first private draft text
Discussing shared memory challenges:
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- Introduction and welcome to new participants
- Review current work topics and purpose with new participants
- We went through the status of the the Virtual Platform definition work, updating the table and some few changes in spec text
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- We went through the entire table of status for information and for updating, looking into the draft specification chapters to confirm the current content.
- Last part of table needs to continue next week.
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Short meeting because of few attendees. We expect some are preparing for next week F2F ;-)
Sync up on whitepaper work and review with Kai after absence.
Discussing F2F logistics and whitepaper planning.
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More discussion on whitepaper content and plans for who will write which chapters.
September 03, 2019
Participants:
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- Kai (vacation)
- Bruno (conflict)
Minutes
- Discussed the Whitepaper draft content and the result was added using green text.
- Outline/content of the inter-core communication was added with Matti's input
- The document purpose was futher discussed and ideas were noted in the beginning of the document
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Discussing the "outline" (general content and order of content) of the first draft in the page Review of content/outline for the early draft of HV whitepaper
Most notes taken on that page directly...
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- Bernhard/Gunnar: ARM is still waiting for input what ARM can bring to the F2F.
- Bernhard: On the whitepaper side, Chapter 2 seems like we can help. But it is very hardware dependent. There should be some info how hardware features evolve. In this ARM can contribute.
- Gunnar/Bernhard: Open question for team/writers to answer: HW needs could be reflected differently in the architecture - more generalized, or specific. Likely there might be a few specific examples from ARM. Sometimes examples are even more specific than what is described in generic-ARM (in other words a specific SoC might have added a unique feature).
- Bernhard: Example SCMI presented before, we can extend on that and/or TrustZone
- Gunnar: Start Attendance list. I will add it on F2F agenda.
- Bruno: I cannot join the F2F in September - travelling for 3 months.
- Gunnar: Please consider if another engineer near you can support networking chapter finalization in Virtual Platform specification
- AI:(all) Review F2F agenda and give feedback on the content and alotted time for each topic.
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- JIRA project work
- Matti convert the virtual platform "table" to tickets
- Kai still interested to write but ran out of time. New attempt for next week.
- Break down the work by writing some JIRA tickets (Kai).
- Next week: also Discuss F2F agenda
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- Link to whitepaper planning (scroll down to see proposed document outline) [HV] Next Generation Multi-OS System Design Whitepaper
- Vasco offered to start writing a chapter, or much more detailed outline of the chapter. I.e. what's the actual content.
- Proposal to switch meeting time came up again
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Discussion about project organization. Should we get our ongoing work up on JIRA tickets for more clarity?
Gunnar: We started this a bit more ad-hoc and driving forward with tables and minutes. [...but we have not so good delivery accuracy...]
Most other GENIVI collaboration projects use a lightweight SCRUM with some defined sprint content, depending on people availability.
JIRA is successful in several other projects (Android SIG, Connected Services, GPRO/Franca-ARA:COM and others) (NOTE: some links might require you to log into JIRA)
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Gunnar: Can you provide links to upstream / blog etc.?
Dmitry: Already in Wiki see IOMMU Summary
Dmitry: Matti will be in office next week, then away for 3 weeks. Planning to upstream more patches.
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- Introduction, Steve Liu
- Recap of USB discussion. Findings and still open questions.
- Discussing adoption of standards. Do OEMs need to require this in RFQs before it takes off? (Similar: Do OEMs need to require VIRTIO, for non-VIRTIO hypervisors to implement it?)
- Planning Workshop content
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April 23, 2019
Participants
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1. Come to a (personal) proposal for your section and document this (is VIRTIO adequate, what else is needed, etc. The process that is mentioned on working page
2. If we feel uncertain, e.g. must have more use-cases, write that down. What is required for you to reach the point of 1.
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AI (Anup): Pick a topic to lead. A free one, or you can also add to one that already has a name.
October 11, 2018 - Tech summit working session in Bangalore, with phone conference
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The overall plan for working session is at:
HVWS Workshop Schedule at Bangalore Tech Summit
A few people asked for a more exact agenda...
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- preparation of the technical summit in Bangalore - 9-10 October
Focus will be on HV project and Graphics Sharing project
We intend to have a HV project readout on Day 1 afternoon (duration: 1h30) and a working session on Day 2 (duration: half-day). There will be a networking event on Day 1 evening.
We need a critical mass of attendees already involved in the HV project to have a productive working session
We would like to check who intends to attend the event (either personnally or through one of your colleagues based in India or elsewhere) and gather topics for discussion for the working session.
- there will be no big showcase at the technical summit (next big showcase will be at CES 2019), some demos might be shown though at the technical summit upon request
- Main topics for the working session will
- device drivers standardization: it is important to make sure the virtio community is aware of the work done by GENIVI, for the next two weeks, it is expected that assignees (in the table at the bottom of API standardization / virtual platform definition
will add description of device drivers, then starting mid-August, the HV project should start discussing how to coordinate with upstream projects (please look at Opensynergy presentation at ALS in June) - automotive use cases: for the time being we have been only through one use case (rear view camera), analysing a second use case should be at the agenda of the HV project after mid-August so that some results might be shown and discussed at the technical summit
- TODO @Sriram any feedback on this ?
- device drivers standardization: it is important to make sure the virtio community is aware of the work done by GENIVI, for the next two weeks, it is expected that assignees (in the table at the bottom of API standardization / virtual platform definition
- in addition, participants are welcome to propose topics / problems to solve that could be debated at the working session
- next call is scheduled on Tuesday 14 August
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Frank
Gunnar
Matti
Sang-bum
- Philippe
Agenda:
- API standardization / virtual platform definition
- Action for all: Look at list of devices (bottom). Continuation of allocation of device drivers description to participants
discussion on criteria
Matti: more detailed criteria for applicability of device drivers to automotive are needed, we need to formalize the criteria
Matti: the idea for FUSE came from 9pfs, FUSE is a modern linux version of a pseudo file system like 9pfs, it is a very interesting technology
Matti: one criterion is : is it standardized already ? is it implemented ?
example: CAN device driver is implemented but not standartized yet
another criterion is complexity (i.e. complexity estimate of the device implementation: for CAN all you need is a kernel implementing the CAN device class
- next two weeks will be dedicated tof filling the wiki page API standardization / virtual platform definition with content
July 17, 2018
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- Additional discussion about Virtual Platform Definition
- Kai has previously been "assigned as a volunteer"
for block storage. And it was confirmed. - Kai: Can we write down more than one person, a team of interested people?
- Gunnar: We can add more, but in my experience we need a topic lead to move things forward. The lead can of course be involved in "recruiting" more people also...
- Gunnar asked Nikola, who selected Network devices & Ethernet (+AVB)
- Gunnar asked Frank, who accepted to look into USB - will discuss with other SysGo engineers.
- Gunnar asked Ralph.... Ralph will ask Matti to select some topics.
- Gunnar asked Sang-bum to cover some topic(s) based on his experience. Sang-bum does not have time right now to evaluate a topic.
- Everyone needs to do the evaluation of their selected topic
- Write down / figure out the automotive requirements
- Read VIRTIO chapter
- Decide if VIRTIO is appropriate and complete for requirements (Gap Analysis)
- Write down steps to close any gap
- Action(All): Assign yourself as "lead" for 1-2 topics and write it on the page. Then perform the steps above.
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- Discussion on boot times...
- Just for reference: 1 second Linux Boot example (old) (not snapshot or hibernation, if I recall correctly)
"Real-world" might be different.
- Just for reference: 1 second Linux Boot example (old) (not snapshot or hibernation, if I recall correctly)
- Sang-Bum: <100ms hypervisor load is generally possible. What is the requirement?
- /TODO/ Add Sriram's notes
- architecture proposed by Sriram at the bottom of this page is aligned with the rear camera use case
- discussion on EVS (External Video System) on top of android
- discussion on Green Hills solution
- /TODO/ Nikola upload the diagram with a micro-kernel based RTOS architecture (with HV as a thin layer on top of RTOS)
- RTOS is responsible for the scheduling, HV is there to enable Linux
- Nikola: goto GHS website the GHS solution is fully described there
- Nikola; you do not need to boot the whole linux to get the rearview camera up & running, you need to boot only the rtos part
- Sang bum; would you require two video streams, one coming from rtos and the later another one coming form android or linux ?
- discussion on the handover of video streams
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- getting everybody updated: we have currently 3 threads active
- device driver virtualization (prepared by Matti)
- AGL paper review (prepared by Nikola)
- critical use cases (prepared by Sriram)
- device driver virtualization
- Matti cannot attend today's call, got the clearance to provide his inputs, will upload them in the wiki today, topic for next week
- critical use cases
- Sriram presents the critical use cases wiki page and his views on how APIs can be identified allocated in an instrument cluster context
- Sriram: this is WIP, will add block diagrams
- Sriram: details the assumptions and the use cases
- Gunnar: we need to check how these use cases fit with the domain interacti
- more on use case / scenario #1 - Rear view Camera at Startup
- Sriram: the rear view camera can be Ethernet connected, or LVDS connected, rather than analog cameras (converted to digital)
- you still need to compose the camera output with the park assistant
- it is a data stream available on a certain port
- Ethernet based cameras would be a good use case to start with
- discussion
- Sang-bum: AGL paper talks about resource allocation on top of hypervisors (linux VM, Android VM)
- Albert: we need to make a distinction between various partitions (safe, secure, others), it is a very complex landscape, IMHO that cannot be solved with one HV, first of all we have to focus on the safety critical part (Autosar based) based on type 1 HV and look at type 2 HV for other applications (e.g. linux containers, etc.)
- Gunnar: we are not at this step of describing a solution using type 1 and/or type 2
- Sang bum: we need to make a decision on our scope type 1 only and/or upper layers with sw virtualization
- /TODO/ Albert provide a problem statement for next week (for instance on the rear view camera)
- Kai: IMHO in order to be concrete with safety, we need to address ASIL levels which is a far-reaching goal, we should first focus on requirements like boot time and data throughput and latency bounds which current HV technologies have problem to comply with
- Kai: most OEMS are a bit hesitating because they are not convinced HV will meet performance requirements
- Sang bum: what about VMs on top of an HV ?
- Kai: first need is to run legacy code and to have different sw islands to run them
- Sang bum: IMHO para-virtualization is included in the scope of solutions
- Sang bum: state of the art is that silicon supports virtualization, we do not need para-virtualization
- Sang bum: in GENIVI we could runLMbench on linux on top of HVs and make performance measurements
- discussion on performance benchmarking (for audio for instance)
- Gunnar: this benchmarking is an industry effort, would start this by having this group agree on the method to do the measures
- Albert: not sure, we did this benchmarking already
- Sriram: I will add KPI to the use cases I have provided, we need to treat each problem statement, we have the right group to do the job
- Sang bum: Android ? running on the fly of Android applications is another use case, using this approach OEMs could avoid Google certification
- Gunnar: asks every participant to provide his views in the wiki
- /TODO/ All provide inputs on the various problem statements in the wiki page
- next week
- review of Opensynergy inputs on virtual device drivers
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Discussion on – see the title Device Standardization on main page: Hypervisor Project
Sang-Bum: Hypervisors need to include a mandatory access control features
Matti: But in theory guests can run without ever speaking to a hypervisor.
Matti: It is difficult to standardize APIs to speak to the hypervisor itself - easier to standardize device driver layer.
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April 19, 2018
(Full-day All Member Meeting Workshop)
Please see the Hypervisor Workshop Schedule at Munich AMM 2018 page for schedule, speakers, participants and meeting minutes.
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- Notice / presentation of new participants: Nikola (Green Hills Software). And previous participants now with opportunity to present themselves: Ajmal and Gayathri PP (TataElxsi)
- Continuation of the assignment of topics preparation with the participants, the topics and assignments for the workshop are listed under Hypervisor Project.
March 27, 2018
Participants
...
- Gunnar tried to get contact with TataElxsi participants but still no audio coming through (microphone not working)
- Continuation of the assignment of topics preparation with the participants, the topics and assignments for the workshop are listed under Hypervisor Project.
March 20, 2018
Participants
...
- Gunnar tried to get contact with TataElxsi participants but still no audio coming through (microphone not working).
- Gunnar reviewed the assignment of topics preparation with the participants, the topics and first assignments for the workshop are listed under Hypervisor Project.
March 12, 2018
Participants
Philippe Robin (GENIVI)
Gunnar Andersson (GENIVI)
Sang-bum Suh (Perseus)
Christian Schulenberg (BMW)
Horst Saier (Mentor)
Subramanian (Alpine)
Guru (Bosch)
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Gunnar highlighted some of the topics for the workshop listed under Hypervisor Project.
Sang bum: introduced the workshop to LGe, Hyundai and Access in the recently hold Korea REG F2F, would like to collect their opinion so that we can share at the workshop
trying to contact xen so that they give a presentation at the workshop on their automotive projects, intends to contact redhat with is leading virtio
Sang bum: contact with car oem and tiers 1, my personal opinion is they do not know yet what it is the exact case to usefully apply HVs to a vehicle, in the process of trying to convince car OEMs to deliver market scenarios, coins the idea of sending a questionnaire to car oems
Sang bum will share an initial questionnaire with us at the next meeting (20 March)
Horst: my interest lies rather in graphics sharing
Gunnar:graphics will be one of the topics of the workshop
Horst: how to share graphic buffers, is a solution available in the open ? it is currently very silicon vendor dependent
Gunnar: Horst Saier can you a short intro in the workshop about it ?
Gunnar: @sang bum: are you familiar with gpu sharing ?
Sang bum: yes, I am very familiar, the problem is that silicon vendors except Intel do not publish the code of the drivers for gpu sharing
short discussion on audio virtualization
Sang-bum: would like to discuss device driver architecture at the workshop
Sang-bum: will propose a list of topics for Wed 14 March EOB
Christian: we are very interested in the market survey and what is available from vendors
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We simply discussed and filled in the topics under Hypervisor Project. Discussion much driven by Albert and Christoph.
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- Introductions
- Gunnar tried to get contact with Ajmal, Gayathri, Karthikeyan, George, and some others but no answer.
- Apparently there were microphone troubles all around
- Gunnar tried to get contact with Ajmal, Gayathri, Karthikeyan, George, and some others but no answer.
- Purpose/idea and organization history of Hypervisor initiative
- Seoul AMM activities October 2017
- Discussion & Preparing
- "Do it right" - i.e. start only when/if significant interest
- New developments – new lead (Sang-Bum)
- Workshop at AMM lots of interest - time to start planning agenda
- Started the topic list under Hypervisor Project - minutes
- Requirements need - OEMs usually don't give HV related requirements - they are more functional.
- Could we create some kind of (shared) Baseline requirements for HV vendors?
- (Sysgo): I do not believe in any kind of open source solution...
- ... to solve Level 2 [or higher] autonomous driving...
- ... the code base is too big
- Gunnar: ... making a note that code base size is independent of code license
- (someone): We need to know which devices are important (for OEMs)
- (someone): We expect safety requirements to be provided
- Albert:
- Need to listen to the voice of customers
- case studies
- safety issues
- 26262 - many are not familiar
- difference in needs between IVI (not safety critical) vs cluster (is safety critical)
- accelerate towards (some kind of) safety approval
- HV solutions have been deployed (to solve this) not only in automotive - in aviation at least 5 years ago
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