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Multiple-zone audio management - System Level Audio
Next Meeting -
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TBD 2021 (summer vacations pause) - 11:30am
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CEST
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Agenda
- Continuation with Network Audio Synchronization. Next steps.
- Defining the tasks for AASIG-92
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Agenda
- Discuss design of audio→external system, WebRTC based demo and "desktop audio development environment"
Thursday 15 July - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram
Apologies
Piotr Krawczyk Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
- RPC interface. What is in there? Is it volume, settings, ...?
- Gunnar: Shared work to define this. Let's set up a Wiki page to list all the required methods and get/settable properties.
- Gunnar: I have also mentioned the possibility to use the CVII:VSC IDL to describe the interface, but this is a secondary goal and not where we need to start.
- Wassim shows a lot of interest in this, the development and use of a standard IDL, and has experience working on topics of IDL, format-conversions, documentation, etc.
- How to transfer PCM data between "Host" and VM? Is it the socket approach as discussed before?
Thursday 8 July - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Piotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin
Apologies
Unknown User (niskandar) ( + 1 more week )
Minutes
- Discussed content of AMM demo See PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown (AASIG, AHAL, audio-control)
- Piotr indicates the Android side can be done in time. On host side we expect to have something, scope to be determined.
- Piotr to send description of project/plan to aasig mailing list and ask Wassim for input on the host-side of the plan.
Thursday 1 July - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Suhasini RaghuramPiotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson
Apologies
Unknown User (niskandar) (+ 2 more weeks)
Minutes
- The full diagram of discussed plans has been posted by Piotr.
- It includes Audio-offloading and desktop development environment ideas, as discussed.
Thursday 24 June - 11:30am CEST
Minutes
- Very short meeting due to apologies and absences
- First draft diagram by Piotr coming via email. To be shown and discussed.
Thursday 17 June - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Discussion about the work
- The main summary is that we need more people to implement
Discussion about PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown (AASIG, AHAL, audio-control)
- Thanks to Wassim for making this page somewhat up to date
- The talk is more oriented towards the big picture
- The big picture: Shifting from Android as device centric based operating system (like with the smartphone) to car based operated system
- Then other topics would be in that direction
- for example extracting the audio, effects, offloading, control, Bluetooth source, etc.
- we shifted from what's needed for the features that we want to implement to what is needed to implement that direction
- Where would be have development and programmers?
- We worry less and less about what Android is doing when we go to the direction of the border of the OS
Concrete steps for next week. 2 major tasks:
- Making the documentation and diagrams of what we intend to do (check the WBS)
- Track related features in new android versions to check that there are no surprises or something that would block us
- Please check first with your NDA not to break it
Goal of the development
- Should be more concrete than the big picture such as
- configuration of audio zones
- environment for building the framework inside the system
- environment for building the framework outside the system
- Piotr: I would start with high level design for these tasks first
- like controlling audio zones, volumes, context
- design of trout based development (from an architecture point of view of course this is not important)
- but does trout support audio?
- it's a nice basis because the framework will not change, so the development can be taken to other HW easily. for example in an emulator, the framework was changed
- cross VM is an advantage (it's used in Trout)
- closer to what we want to develop in future
- closer to real use case
- This is where the trend is going
- get a portability of Android with trout (but not other OS)
- we need to check what is the real platform that we would work with in the future
- we need to check the good reasons to select it
- Wassim: I would focus more on policy and logic management specially for our GENIVI group
- Focusing also on versions of Android in the background and what would they offer
Thursday 10 June - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin
apologies: Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Discussion on the workbreakdown structure, PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown (AASIG, AHAL, audio-control) updated online
Thursday 27 May 2021 - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin
apologies: Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Discussion on the project organization and workplan and on how to foster engineers' engagement in day2day work, outcome of the discussion will be reported in the next call
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin
Minutes
Small discussion about the AMM
- Interest in virtualization, trout,
virtio
Discussion about virtualization, virtio, networking virtualization, TSN area in the hypervisor group
Discussion about the implementation
- Have we moved away from topics that are interesting for Analog Devices? A2B connected technologies
- Maybe we can get back to these topics when we are designing hardware POCs for the virtualization
- There some interests of developing Linux drivers for A2B not only Android
- Also standardized way of connecting A2B
- Idea of diagnostic protocol as a carrier for end user functionalities
no call on Thursday 13 May (due to a bank holiday)
May 4-7 Virtual AMM - AUDIO HAL sessions
- 5 May - technical update: recorded session (please go to AUDIO HAL section), Android Automotive Audio slides
- 6 May - technical workshop #1: Recorded Session (please go to AUDIO section), PoC presentation
- 7 May - technical workshop #2: Recorded Session (please go to AUDIO section)
Thursday 29 April 2021 - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali)
apologies Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence
Minutes
preparation of AMM last session - discussion on the topics for next 6 months
- virtualization => how can we minimize changes to Android (virtio, trout)
- simulation => how can we simulate HW acceleration in a seemless environment together an Emulated Android
- are we chasing after Android 12 or are we ahead of Android for the external source management in an automotive environment ?
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence
Minutes
Synchronizing from last weeks' status
- Wassim: We presented some suggetsions and discussed how they can help, what are your impressions?
- Piotr: Audio Weaver was specially a quite interesting topic and it seems widely used.
- Wassim: you can use Audio Weaver for free with https://elinux.org/R-Car/Boards/M3SK development kit
- Wassim: you can use it on PC but it's based on Matlab
- Wassim: the goal is the smooth transition between the demo/emulation, and the product. Concept is requirement as product model.
- In the future a researcher would just for example provide an effect model and this would be a requirement to the suppliers
- Specially that we are using Android. We can have a ready Android system, and a ready effect model. What is left is to connect them.
- Wassim: this is the picture posted here Car Audio System Emulator. I'll take some time to create ppt Genivi slides
more discussion about the demo but with WebRTC and Trout
- Piotr: It's a nice this audio solution (refering to the Car Audio System Emulator). To have the effects controlled with a model outside of Android.
- Piotr: In the end, we could have the WebRTC interface showing Audio coming out of Android and Effect controlled by the Audio Effect HAL and allows the user to apply additional effects on top of the effects.
- Wassim: yes and we could also have them decoupled: PC simulation where the decoupling happen but browser is GUI.
- Piotr: one question is about the LibPulse Audio
- Wassim: libpulse audio is simply a tool. What is more important is to show:
- if we have in the car many zones/speakers/etc.
- the user would see it on his browser the streams the channels etc.
- the user would choose what to listen to for example
- the architecture of the Car Audio System Emulator is independent of the PC but can be patched and used to control
- Pitor: further question: should the ECNR control interface be exposed? and to what level are they exposed?
- Wassim: as long as Android allows to do it, should be enough.
- Wassim: as long as something can be controlled from hardware, it should be controllable by software
- Wassim: imagine that every app has its own ECNR and multiple applications would need to run at the same time → this is why it's more interesting to have a system ECNR
- Pitor: common solutions don't utilize DSP firmware by default
- Piotr: if we talk about Trout , it's not an emulator, it's just an Android instance and most of the HAL will be virtualized. We are not connected to the pulse audio here for example. to keep with the same picture, we would do something different
- Wassim: completely okay, we don't have to use the pulseaudio server
- Piotr: we can think about not using ALSA, because of the virtualization.
- Piotr: this virtualization would be separate from browser and ALSA.
- Piotr: android emulator - virtual android
- Pitor link for trout and virtualization https://source.android.com/devices/automotive/virtualization
- Wassim: we didn't solve the control path yet
- Wassim: between the android and browser how would you see that? Json?
- Piotr: audio control already implemented in trout, let's check a solution in that direction. Since Trout already has solutions for several audio control
- Wassim: we need to look how easy it is to deploy the grpc on the browser
- Wassim: 3 demonstrations so far: raw audio with float sample packets, Opus Codec, WebRTC not yet fully running but it's client 2 client (looking like an overkill)
- Piotr: I would say for demonstration purpose, whatever is currently working would be accepted,
Jira ticket AASIG-124
- We need to edit the diagram and the names and rework it and that should be the demo concept.
- Audio weaver: candidate for virtual effect platform to start a professional demo. Later we can work with python audio effect but this needs more work but is open standard.
Genivi virtual meeting 04-07 May 2021
- Need to gather some topics for next meeting (Audio HAL CW 2117 - 29.04.2021)
- Webex is preffered as a meeting software.
- Last time some people could not join (because the meeting was hosted with Zoom)
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Overview of the last weeks
- Piotr: status from last week regarding the demo (part of the AASIG-93 but with a twist)
- Demo is working on Trout
- WebRTC is now being connected
- Confident to be able to show something in two weeks
- Expecting more commits in https://github.com/SoundHacking/web_py_loop
- Got more support about this task from Tieto → Output should be shown
- Gunnar: So where are we now exactly?
- Piotr: Next week we would have something to show and have a better overview of what we have and what is missing.
- Gunnar: we need to check with Wassim what was his vision in order not to have an overlap and re-use different parts → Todo
- Gunnar: Main idea was to create a development environment where we can try different audio solutions but the heart of this would still be Android → todo capture this in Jira
- Suhasini: 3 questions about the virtual meeting 04-07 May 2021
- What are the other slots used for (for example vehicle data related)?
- What will the Audio HAL do in the slot exactly?
- What updates are we planning on giving in the introduction
- Gunnar/Philippe: the slots are being now finalized we'll update you asap. For now:
- One slot is on Wednesday (05.05.2021) 5 minutes introduction
- Time slot 15min about the External Audio Demonstration
- Time slot workshop 1 Q&A Audio design discussion 25min
- Workshop 2 (Wassim moderating) on Friday (07.05.2021) 15:25
- Introduction shall be about what we have done, what we are doing, and if you like to join. Prerecorded video. At some point you will be contacted by Tom (Audio/Video/Networking) between 27 and 28 April 2021
- Fosdem update: we could bring it up in the introduction on Wednesday
- Stephen: DSP concept from last week. Asked internally
- There is HIFI support but it's proprietary
- Audio Weaver is supported in Renesas
Todo
- Unknown User (wassim.filali): To synchronize with Piotr Krawczyk about the vision and re-usability
- Unknown User (niskandar) : create from the past minutes of meetings a Jira ticket and add it to the sprint
Thursday 8 April 2021 - 11:30am CET
Participants
Stephen Lawrence Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram
Apologies
- Wassim has investigated webrtc with some simple implemementations
- Wassim: This could be transformed into a "proper" project. Maybe hosted on github/GENIVI?
- https://github.com/SoundHacking/web_py_loop – Gunnar Andersson to review if this fits into GENIVI repos.
- Documentation here: https://www.homesmartmesh.com/docs/sound/
- Wassim describes two designs, one on WebRTC, and another which is more decoupled and simply uses fixed parameters for the encoding. In an environment where the bandwidth is assumed to be more controlled and less variable, then the dynamic features of WebRTC are not needed.
- Both ideas are implemented and can be compared. All examples use the 00_backend (loopback) as server except for example 07 which uses 00_signaling server. Wassim to update readmes.
- Interesting tool https://w.dspconcepts.com/audio-weaver
- Development tool with target framework to execute the scenarios (on-board firmware)
- Audio experts make a flow using GUI tool, by connecting and configuring processing blocks.
- Not open-source. Likely business model is target license-fee for production use
- Some DSPs, are supported.
- For ST Electronics hardware, the license is included.
An inexpensive ST Microelectronics dev. board can be purchased and used directly: STM32f407 user guide.
(but there is also the option to run it on PC only) - ... discussion about which other DSP hardware platforms might be supported. This is not clear on the web site (need to contact the company?).
- Wassim says he knows it supports production grade DSPs, but apparently these are not public information(?), so we cannot describe it further.
- Stephen: I found that Cadence is listed, that's all
- You can generate the config/script and send it to the target systems.
- The target systems have an audioweaver DSP code.
- Documentation is available.
- Suhasini: Can the tool run the scenarios on the PC (a simulator/emulator environment)?
- Wassim: Yes, all "blocks" can be executed on the PC with a "x86 target"
- It might be interesting to support our "development environment" (described above and in minutes 2 weeks ago) integrated with this?
- Wassim: (bottom line) Whether it is exactly this one or another, this type of development environment would be ideal.
Thursday 1 April 2021 - 11:30am CET
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram
Apologies
Minutes
- review of the planning of presentations at the upcoming AMM
- TODO Wassim and Suhasini will prepare a (5 to 10' mn) report on Audio HAL project status
- TODO Wassim will contact Piotr and check with him how to deliver a demo on External Audio management at the upcoming AMM
- Wassim: Android 12 is now being published
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Thursday 25 March 2021 - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW2112)
Participants
Piotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali)
Apologies
Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin
Minutes
- Piotr discussing that the HAL implementation might just as well target Trout since it is progressing quickly
- Google's virtual platform for Android "Trout", is likely to implement VIRTIO-SND
- Trout is based on CrosVM (developed as part of Chromium). CrosVM is in turn based on KVM when running on Linux.
- Trout is great and will make HALs portable without/less rewrite (Piotr)
- ...but the complexity of hardware compatibility and porting then lands on Hypervisor and Virtual Platform implementations instead (Gunnar)
- (Note Automotive Virtual Platform Specification already requires VIRTIO-SND in the working-copy, to be released in new version soon)
- VIRTIO-SND proposal is merged to VIRTIO master branch but no VIRTIO v1.2 document exists yet. Seems very likely to be included since it is merged.
- VIRTIO-SND kernel driver exists but implementations on virtual platforms (QEMU) still lacking. Part way done on Trout it seems...
- It is being developed but we can't rely that it will be done for AMM demo.
- Plan is therefore to use a simplified VSOCK transfer instead, exporting the audio. (A step in the right direction since VIRTIO-SND implementations are likely to use VSOCK)
- The plan remains to start building a framework for external audio and as a first implementation set up a WebRTC server running on the "host" that can consume the data from the VSOCK connection.
- The usage of WebRTC also fulfils a desire from Wassim to build a flexible simulation/processing/tinkering framework that can be executed on developer machines by way of a Web browser providing the user interface. (i.e. not only production, but development tools support).
- Why WebRTC?? Summarized:
- Easy demo - just "send a URL to someone, they open it in web a browser". It is also convenient way to create a user interface
- Bigger context: Create an abstraction of target sound environment, which may develop into a flexible (desktop) development environment for exploring/developing audio related functions.
- (Gunnar added offline): The fact that "real" Android is still part of this abstract development system makes it relevant for developing and testing real audio functions. I imagine you could even do Hardware in the loop setups...
- But also: WebRTC might be a possible actual "production" protocol for audio connection to a remote server. (Example use case that needs this: off-board speech processing)
- Pulseaudio? Might be an easy solution to implement some of the control channel parts for the demo.
- NEXT : Need to start breaking down the design into more details, included software components
- 1) Find existing implementations of component parts (e.g. WebRTC – Unknown User (wassim.filali)mentioned there are implementations available, let's point to them)
- 2) What parts still do not exist - need to be developed
- And of course: Confirm the overall demonstration use case and plan to guide the breakdown.
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram
Apologies
Unknown User (niskandar) Unknown User (wassim.filali)
Minutes
- Wassim sent a link before the meeting. A very useful documentation page describing the principles for Audio Focus in the latest AOSP is this page:
https://source.android.com/devices/automotive/audio/audio-focus - Quick updates for Suhasini who is 'glad to be back'. Continued focus on external-audio track is good.
- We reviewed last week quickly and decided to do offline reading of the documentation and come back next week for more discussion.
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Participants
Chris Simmonds (part) Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali)
Apologies
Minutes
CI/Testing
Gunnar: Shortly about Go issues sorted out. Both Lava and Go.CD updated to latest versions. Go now behind NGINX proxy (it used to handle its own SSL/TLS but this is more standard). Some breakage to sort out -- large artifact transfers were being truncated, etc. NGINX settings sort this out.
StephenL: We have set up full CTS & VTS in Lava. Seems very large and running many tests. How could we reduce the tests to the most relevant. But in some cases the tests still seem not that comprehensive.
Does Chris have experience?
Chris: There ought to be a test for every API. Admit that some seem trivial however. Just call the function and see if there is a reply, basically.
StephenL: So for audio tests, it won't really test behavior
Chris: Yes, the tests cannot monitor the output, so some might pass even if no sound actually comes out, etc.
Effects / DSPs / binary blobs
Wassim: I looked at offloading to DSP in Android 11. I can find the effects headers. Where is the implemntation -- DSP binaries?
Chris: AOSP should ships some basic effects, with source code. (algorithms on general CPU only, since DSPs are very specific). DSP code is likely to be binaries without source code, and therefore can't ship with AOSP.
SL: Agree, silicon vendors ship binaries and often a DSP development kit to write code, and so on. But it's likely even 3rd parties are involved and selling implementations of special effects/processing.
In summary: Binary implementations come from elsewhere, either as part of BSP delivery from Silicon Vendor, or even third party.
Design and demo of external audio system
Wassim: We haven't discussed using WebRTC before, let's We'd like to create an isolated/simulated environment (e.g. dockerized). Demonstrate how to play/control non-local audio.
Proposed Idea: Use a browser as the receiving audio device. (And UI)
Web audio API - volumes, effects, filters, extract channels... even different zones set up?
You could forward to WebRTC inside Android. Android WebRTC -- see link TODO It seems easy to stream to WebRTC. (but that's not quite the same, see below)
Wassim shows example WebRTC user interface with volume controls etc.
Piotr: What is volume control controlling here?
Wassim: It happens on the local machine.
(discussion: it should affect the Android based source instead?)
Implementation alternatives
1. Reuse Android WebRTC implementation
2. Don't use WebRTC implementation from Android, extract audio as before (via plain socket) to some external server. This external server may also act as a WebRTC server and could be implemented using any non-Android implementation (i.e. likely Linux, and likely packaged in Docker of course). The WebRTC server sends audio over WebRTC but also hosts the web page of course, that is the client user interface, shown in "user's" browser)
Wassim and Gunnar prefer alt. 2). This simply extracts audio from Android and the fact that WebRTC is used is a non-Android related detail in this demo setup.
Piotr/Wassim:
Discussion on full round-trip, e.g. user changes volume or other setting on user interface - this might affect audio server, but in some cases need to be fed back also into the Android system.
Gunnar/Wassim:
Web page as user interface would be like a remote-control case. Agreed. Wassim notes in that case Android could run "headless" for the purposes of the demo.
Gunnar: A more car-like setup is that the user interface is still provided by Android, only the audio processing and playback may be on an external system.
Who is skilled at web development? Wassim is. Piotr would need to spend some time learning more.
Wassim: Can we try running the emulator headless (in a container)?
Piotr: I would expect it will fail when not having the graphics access.
Wassim: I'd prefer a simple remote-server setup, ideally a collection of docker containers.
... (discussion) running full emulator UI from docker might have issues (theoretically possible, but why?)
... might be OK to just run emulator on host without container - but it should be just a simple launch
... note that the emulator is in fact a virtual machine.
Alternative - Android in container has been shown before. Is it possible to build on it? Probably not based on automotive build out of the box There Android executes directly on kernel (container) and not a VM. Links?
Demonstration scenarios
- User interaction is desired on Windows (typical corporate environment)
- User interaction could be with the Android UI --> requires the emulator to be running on the Windows client machine. The audio/WebRTC server has been assumed to be on same machine also, but since the audio is over TCP/IP it could theoretically be elsewhere.
- User interaction could be via Browser only --> no requirement on where the Android system + WebRTC server actually runs. Deployment on some Linux server might be nice if it can be done headless.
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Introduction from Philippe
- Have a look at the detail from Jira and update the tickets
- Check the meeting in May - Virtual all members meeting
- 4th of May until the 7th of May: starting to gather/fill the content. Provide an introduction and demonstration of particular topics
Jira going through the Audio HAL board
- AASIG-70: needs a bit more time (a couple of days) to be updated.
- AASIG-75: Design is in progress but there are more relevant questions first
- What is the expectation here? we were still with the emulator idea? What is the purpose of this ticket?
- Detailed discussion
- Communication between the host and the emulator
- Projected mode and Media Sync Service
- Networking between host and emulator
- ECNR - Echo Cancellation and Noise Reduction - before or after HAL
- Can be used in bare-metal Android solution, Also Android AEC
- Summary, 2 different points
- Own Microphone to Android: goes through Audio HAL
- External Microphone to Android: this can go through the "custom sync service" → offloading topic
- AASIG-92: we studied it and we understood that we need an AVB stack or A2B but do we do more investigating here?
- AASIG-104: Wassim's opinion x86 is real heardware and this for now fully okay instead of targeting a hardware because anyway the target hardware chosen here will not be used in the car
- News about the hardware lab: There are functional boards with RENESAS
- This might be interesting when we pick up the topic of the audio latency
- removed from the sprint
- For the Virtual All Members Meeting
- Idea from Piotr will be first analyzed by Piotr and then presented in the next week
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Participants
Minutes
Thursday 18 February 2021 - 11:30am CET
Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin
apologies: Gunnar Andersson, Nadim Iskandar, Suhasini Raghuram, Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Discussion on AVB/TSN and hypervisors and virtio between Wassim and Stephen; will continue next week
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Update regarding the platform
- we got the original manifest
- it looks simple to integrate into the scripts that we have (this is the next steps to be done here)
- As a reference here is a link to the different repositories
- This new repository, aasig_local_manifests is for local manifests (to define hardware target specific files, and feature variants such as audio, vhal, etc.)
- This repository, aasig_dev_configuration has the build configurations (mk files) for vhal and audio variation
Discussion about the stories
- Main Question. What is more interesting, how do we go futher?
- Networked Audio (AVB Workshop and Discussion)
- Piotr: maybe if we can study topics outside of Android to offer solutions that are not on the plate of Android. This could be even added to Android.
- Android control (Android and System Level Audio)
- How can we deal with this? how much custom code do we need?
- Wassim: I think here there are more hanging fruits
- Both approaches shouldn't block each others.
- Networked Audio (AVB Workshop and Discussion)
Jira showSummary false server JIRA columns key,summary,type,created,updated,due,assignee,reporter,priority,status,resolution serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-119 - Overview about the issue and the goal
- there are some alsa and tinyalsa plugins inforamtion that we can check
- Once we understand the limitation (questions in the ticket) we can close the ticket, this would need to look into the links gathered
- DoD would be a kind of a presentation that could allow us to start a conversation/discussion
- maybe add an entry into confluence and turn it into a presentation
- Discussion about the
Jira server JIRA columns key,summary,type,created,updated,due,assignee,reporter,priority,status,resolution serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-93 - Regarding the whole concept of the AVB, do we have a demo to show that the concept works?
- Piotr: i'm interested in showing this in a complete stack. So an approach to form a complete solution, first we start with a diagram to define:
- what would be the interfaces with Android
- what would be the alsa gateway
- what would be the AVB software stack and alsa solution
- etc.
- if we can create a diagram of all of this, it would give us an overview to allow us to create a complete demo about the solution.
- There are many points to check and explore such as different suppliers or silos for different parts of the stack
- What is the definition of "Offloading"
- Shared screen of Stephen
- just to check if such documents are interesting to continue the discussion of the AVB approach
- This will help towards the ticket
(creating an overview)Jira showSummary false server JIRA columns key,summary,type,created,updated,due,assignee,reporter,priority,status,resolution serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-94
- Feedback from FOSDEM
- A lot of participants 300-400 and Q&A was successful
- Thank you for the guys who participated
- Suhasini will be missing the next 4 meetings
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin @Chris Simmons(2net)
Minutes
Discussion about
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- Would there be any limitation? maybe apart from ASIL limitation
- References were added to the task detail
- Configuration options range from plugins or configutation language (xml configuration file for examle)
- XML configuration file disadvantages:
- one person deciding what can be configured (limitation by the developer)
- static or compile time let's say
- Configutation with C++ policy advantages:
- dynamic loading of the classes according to (I opened the roof of the car, now I want the configutation to be changed on run-time)
- more freedom to configure
- extendibility
- It would be easier to implement conditional programming (if the roof is open)
- XML configuration file disadvantages:
- So back to the original discussion of this task: we need to check if Android policies are good enough or do we need to extend our own
- But the decision to use XML and C++ policy is a different decision
- There is already a bit of documentation in the implement policy on android
- We need to get a real configuration file to see what it would look like (a simple file but with different examples) such as roof open, driving mode change, etc.
- This is different than the audio focus matrix defined in the multi-zone audio focus. We could modify CarAudioService.java
- We could modify more files but then Andoird would be not certified. There is of course advantages and disadvantages but let's check our options that keeps us certified first.
- We need to check if the Audio Focus matrix is modifiable (check with Unknown User (bartoszbialek))
Discussion about the AVB topic
- as mentioned last week, there are still open points like how do we integrate ALSA devices, how would be do cross ECU communications, etc.
- The problem is, is there something more we can introduce?
- Wassim: imo, there are no longer low hanging fruits in this topic. We either go further or we drop the subject.
- It depends if there is someone that would like to try something and go further
Going futher
- We need to continue with this concept Android and System Level Audio, to check which option is better going further
Looking at the current sprint (AASIG-92)
- audio transfer to external ECU
- There are still some problems with the definition of Offloading
- There are some overlapping and similarities
- There is still a question of considering the Audio HAL as part of Android or not
- The way you control your dsp on the Audio HAL is completely outside of Android
- Piotr maybe meant that since we decided that the audio effect Audio HAL is outside of Android, what are the APIs that we can interact with
- Any android has Audio HAL implementation but the different is that the audio effect HAL expects the audio to be back (not like an amplifier where the audio is just leaving Android and not returning)
- also a good definition of Offloading would help
- implement Input
- implement Raw Stream extraction
Todo
- Unknown User (niskandar) : Add components to our epics and stories to diffirentiate them
- Philippe Robin : Could you please create a quick filter on the board for tickets with componen in (AudioHal). That would make it easier to navigate our dashboard. DONE please AASIG AUDIO HAL Board
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin
Minutes
Discussion about the AVB and next steps or topics to do (but we cannot reach the conclusion without Piotr)
- let's refer back to AVB Workshop and Discussion.
- Networked audio devices: detailed good enough the AVB (Topics and priorities)
- AVB is not a solved problem but there are no more comments
- If we say Android needs to talk to ALSA devices, and AVB is a network between them, then the networking problem is solved
- If the AVB is sent to another ECU, then we also need the control → point number 2
- The focus should be on how cross ECU should work
- The third points: Audio Effects should have two parts, hardware audio effects and virtual effects
- Not sure if we are taking notes only or should we write this in the epics.
- Gunnar: is it a solved problem in the industry? Is there a real solution that can be used right now in production?
- Stephen: from a hardware point of view, AVB had a lot of improvement
- Software side, in early day it was considered too complex but people are demystifying it
- What track should we look at from our side?
- Wassim: interest: point number 2 is a low hanging fruit. Point number 1 is a bit more complext and needs a hardware etc. Audio Effect would be the next priority
- Gunnar: Audio project is more about defining the functions and API for transfering and controlling audio between the sources and the sink.
- the point number 2 is more like a remote control (from a smartphone for examle). But this topic was in GENIVI many years ago as part of multimedia. But we should pick up existing work to make it happen again if we go in this direction.
- media and media control should be separated from pure audio design
- Wassim: we have media control and volume control. volume is managed differently in Android. so we could revisit the Media control but the interfaces are already present in Android. The question here is more : i have an external amplifier and i want to control the volume without loosing the sync with Android: this is an open point. → so point number 2 is more like an Audio Control subject. We can look at Android and System Level Audio
- Gunnar: but so we could work on an interface to have in the infotainment system that would have control over the master volume and other media controls
- Wassim: the image in Android and System Level Audio is a bit outdated. After some research, Android does provide an interface for the media control but not for the volume
- Gunnar: MQQT could be used as a carrier to expose some information to the mobile phone for a remote control of the media for example
- Wassim: yes but when we receive a signal, do we bypass Android or we would feed it in the Android service
- Gunnar: so we would need to investigate what Android is exactly providing in order to check if we need an alternative
- Wassim: yes the first step should be a deliverable review document detailing what Android can and cannot do regarding this control API.
- Agreed (from all)
- Gunnar: maybe we can also take more opinions
- Google partner would give a benefit of the pre-release notes in order to check what are the upcoming changes in the APIs
- Gunnar: then we have a direction to go → learn what the system can do.
- Wassim: First question that comes to mind: the car audio manager could have pre-defined policies. If we want we can add plugins to it. The question is: does the car audio manager allows C++ custom plugins or pre-defined XML files?
- Stephen: There should be something like this because of all the cases of early audio in Android systems
- TODO: check the Jira if the discussion was captured in tickets of Jira to work on them
- Created a Jira ticket for this. @All: please have a look and create sub tasks to provide feedback about the topic in parallel to Wassim
Jira server JIRA columns key,summary,type,created,updated,due,assignee,reporter,priority,status,resolution serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-119
FOSDEM presentation update
- Video submitted and is added to the presentation
- Piotr was requested to also be added as a host (but still no reply)
- The video is clear about the presentation and then Q&A session will follow where Suhasini and Piotr would join as hosts.
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(AUDIO_HAL_CW2103)
raw notes to be edited
Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson apologies
Apologies
Minutes
review Review of the backlog for audio HAL
- epic: audio HAL implementation - BT (
)Jira showSummary false server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-79 Jira showSummary false server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-75 Jira showSummary false server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-76 - we look at the diagram attached
- Piotr: native mechanism to connect to a BT device is shown on the diagram
- Potr: a second option is to connect the BT device to the platform directly and use the BT infrastructure and pass the audio data to Android
- there is a need to update the diagram
- discussion on the options
- discussion on accessing the hw
- accessing the dsp through 2 different VMs ?
- either you own the dsp on one machine only and you do not have a virtualization problem
- or you run the dsp as a service like a networked device
- Piotr mentions the work done by Opensynergy and Qualcomm with Google on virtualizing Android Automotive
- TODO Wassim and Piotr will capture the discussion on a tech note
- Piotr: added offline (in a email) the questions he raised during the call
- BT headset handling should be realized by Android stack or host OS - virtualized/containerized environment, I guess we agreed here that such case should be handled by Android and its BT stack
- how to properly utilize DSP for BT headset, especially in virtualized environment, DSP as a service?
- Google is introducing GKI (Generic Kernel Image) concept - how this could affect DSP and ECNR usage?
- ECNR for BT headset - how this should be handled, should it be?
- Jira ticket commented
Todo
- Unknown User (wassim.filali) Piotr Krawczyk capture the discussion from a technical point of view.
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Philippe: talking about the FOSDEM presentation, if some time is left we could mention the backlog tasks.
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Thursday 17 December 2020 - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL CW50)
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk
apologies: Wassim Filali, Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
How to get help on the Kingfisher board
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Virtual open source conference. GENIVI was recommended to give a talk (Fosdem: biggest open source conference). If we submit anything to the Embedded Mobile and Automotive dev room, we need to have strong code examples.
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Mohan Karthik Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Continuing the session about Network Audio Synchronization and answering questions
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Johan Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Mohan Karthik Chris Simmonds Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Wassim giving a session about Network Audio Synchronization (many additional information came from Mohan Karthik)
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Going through the list of prioritized topics:
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Brain storming session (recorded in PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown (AASIG, AHAL, audio-control) - in "Brainstorming about breakdown rework")
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- The webex meeting is now a reccurent meeting and this means that the link can be used several time.
Todo
- @ALL: update the List of prioritized topics for the Audio HAL with priority of the project
-
Unknown User (niskandar) : update the webex meeting link in the Audio Hal minutes
Thursday - 5 November - 11:30am CET
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram, Unknown User (wassim.filali), Chris Simmonds
Minutes
Review of the list of prioritarized topics
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Thursday - 1 October - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram Henric Carlsson
apologies: Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Review the work breakdown structure and update it to get a shared knowledge of the project status before preparing the agenda of the AHAL working session at the tech summit
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Henric Carlsson Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Updates from last meeting:
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- @All: Try to connect your daily work to GENIVI tasks
- @All: Contact Google or check in your company if there are already documentation about the latest Android
- @All: work on the repeatable platform setup in each of your companies (section: Additional build and run info in PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown (AASIG, AHAL, audio-control))
Thursday 17 September - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali)
Minutes
Discussion on demo implementation status
Thursday 10 September - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin
Minutes
Discussion on configuration & demo building & integration of the emulator project, followed by Jira review
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Discussion on feature content for MS3 demo (MS3 = virtual tech summit scheduled on October 26-30) Gunnar Andersson can you add the notes you took during the call ? thanks
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Going through the previous minutes of the meeting.
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Going through the previous minutes of the meeting.
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Participants
Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Going through the previous todo list:
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence
Minutes
Alternative board for Suhasini, any upadte on that matter?
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Henric Carlsson Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Should the minutes be more like a transcript?
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Participants
Unknown User (niskandar) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (zafirulhassan) Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Unknown User (zafirulhassan)
Minutes
Looking at the history, the best course of action here is to go through the Jira tickets and assign them to start working on them.
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- Nadim: where would be put the outcomes of some of the Jira tickets?
- Gunnar: we would put the outcomes in the confluence ordered by logical order. We build the confluence pages as we are finishing the Jira tickets.
- Piotr took the ticket
. The deliverable is to have a picture that shows an overview of the needed SW involved in the Raw Streams extraction. It would be added here PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown (AASIG, AHAL, audio-control)Jira showSummary false server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-71 - Audio Hal discussion
: checking why do we need this point? Piotr will check if the AA Audio HAL is ready for raw stream extractionsJira showSummary false server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-72 - Bartosz took this ticket
: checking the multizoneJira showSummary false server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-73
would also be assigned to Piotr but it would take some time. It's about writing some code inside the HAL. This will be try to done with Bartosz and Piotr.Jira showSummary false server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-74
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- it doesn't make sense to continue tackling the other stories because we are not today complete.
- Bartosz will take this task
, so that we can have a ready overview picture for a better understanding. Please also add it to the top of the page PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown (AASIG, AHAL, audio-control)Jira server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-76
: why is this a story on its own? there are mixed points between this oneJira server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-92 Jira server JIRA serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-93
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Henric Carlsson Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Let's start by going through the points that we have gathered last time in PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown.
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) @Henric Unknown User (zafirulhassan)
Minutes
Introduction to members and new member Zafirul
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) @Henric
Minutes
Debriefing of the virtual summit
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin Andrii Chepurnyi Harald Bartholomae Ruslan Shymkevych Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk @Henric
Minutes
Going through the presentation of Wassim
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW18 AUDIO_HAL_CW18
Thursday 30 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW18)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW18 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW18 |
Participants
Philippe RobinSuhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) @Henric Ruslan Shymkevych
apologies: Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek)
Minutes
Review of Ruslan's email of 23 April - archive
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW17 AUDIO_HAL_CW17
Thursday 23 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW17)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW17 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW17 |
Participants
Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar) Unknown User (wassim.filali) @Henric
Minutes
Updates of the tasks done from last week: Wassim, Piotr, Nadim
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW16 AUDIO_HAL_CW16
Thursday 16 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW16)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW16 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW16 |
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Suhasini Raghuram Ruslan Murtazin Unknown User (niskandar) Unknown User (wassim.filali) Andrii Chepurnyi @Henric
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- Discuss the gathered topics, who can work on which topics and which strategy
- Status update on the "access raw streams"
Minutes
Changes done in this page Android and System Level Audio:
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW15 AUDIO_HAL_CW15
Thursday 09 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW15)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW15 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW15 |
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek)Andrii Chepurnyi@Henric Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence
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- from last week's minutes
- Discuss the gathered topics, who can work on which topics and which strategy
- Status update on the "access raw streams"
- AOB
- abstract of the GENIVI virtual tech summit AASIG Audio HAL workshop
Minutes
list of gathered topics on multi-zone audio management
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Thursday 02 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW14)
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Unknown User (wassim.filali) Andrii Chepurnyi Unknown User (niskandar) @Henric Suhasini Raghuram
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- Slides from Wassim about the two models inside and outside of AA
- discussion of the cases/features that we are trying to solve
- checking the Audio Manager to decide whether or not it needs an update
Minutes
- 2 strategies or options:
- android provides sources and sinks
- Android controls the complete systems
- We will not discuss the need to have such options
- Basically some functions cannot be integrated to AA
- Audio sources coming from android or from external (android not aware of them)
- Each strategy has limitations and can be criticized
- Idea is to get each model and apply to it questions/cases
- Questions like safety sources, raw streams, etc.
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