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Multiple-zone audio management - System Level Audio
Next Meeting - Thursday
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3 June 2021 - 11:30am CEST (AudioHAL CW21)
Click to Join Webex meeting
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- Progress on external-system design, WebRTC based demo, ...
- Check what can be prepared and demonstrated for the next Virtual All Members meeting
Thursday 27 May 2021 - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin
apologies: Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Discussion on the project organization and workplan and on how to foster engineers' engagement in day2day work, outcome of the discussion will be reported in the next call
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin
Minutes
Small discussion about the AMM
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Thursday 29 April 2021 - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali)
apologies Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence
Minutes
preparation of AMM last session - discussion on the topics for next 6 months
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence
Minutes
Synchronizing from last weeks' status
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Overview of the last weeks
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Thursday 8 April 2021 - 11:30am CET
Participants
Stephen Lawrence Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram
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Thursday 1 April 2021 - 11:30am CET
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram
Apologies
Minutes
- review of the planning of presentations at the upcoming AMM
- TODO Wassim and Suhasini will prepare a (5 to 10' mn) report on Audio HAL project status
- TODO Wassim will contact Piotr and check with him how to deliver a demo on External Audio management at the upcoming AMM
- Wassim: Android 12 is now being published
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Thursday 25 March 2021 - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW2112)
Participants
Piotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali)
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Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin
Minutes
- Piotr discussing that the HAL implementation might just as well target Trout since it is progressing quickly
- Google's virtual platform for Android "Trout", is likely to implement VIRTIO-SND
- Trout is based on CrosVM (developed as part of Chromium). CrosVM is in turn based on KVM when running on Linux.
- Trout is great and will make HALs portable without/less rewrite (Piotr)
- ...but the complexity of hardware compatibility and porting then lands on Hypervisor and Virtual Platform implementations instead (Gunnar)
- (Note Automotive Virtual Platform Specification already requires VIRTIO-SND in the working-copy, to be released in new version soon)
- VIRTIO-SND proposal is merged to VIRTIO master branch but no VIRTIO v1.2 document exists yet. Seems very likely to be included since it is merged.
- VIRTIO-SND kernel driver exists but implementations on virtual platforms (QEMU) still lacking. Part way done on Trout it seems...
- It is being developed but we can't rely that it will be done for AMM demo.
- Plan is therefore to use a simplified VSOCK transfer instead, exporting the audio. (A step in the right direction since VIRTIO-SND implementations are likely to use VSOCK)
- The plan remains to start building a framework for external audio and as a first implementation set up a WebRTC server running on the "host" that can consume the data from the VSOCK connection.
- The usage of WebRTC also fulfils a desire from Wassim to build a flexible simulation/processing/tinkering framework that can be executed on developer machines by way of a Web browser providing the user interface. (i.e. not only production, but development tools support).
- Why WebRTC?? Summarized:
- Easy demo - just "send a URL to someone, they open it in web a browser". It is also convenient way to create a user interface
- Bigger context: Create an abstraction of target sound environment, which may develop into a flexible (desktop) development environment for exploring/developing audio related functions.
- (Gunnar added offline): The fact that "real" Android is still part of this abstract development system makes it relevant for developing and testing real audio functions. I imagine you could even do Hardware in the loop setups...
- But also: WebRTC might be a possible actual "production" protocol for audio connection to a remote server. (Example use case that needs this: off-board speech processing)
- Pulseaudio? Might be an easy solution to implement some of the control channel parts for the demo.
- NEXT : Need to start breaking down the design into more details, included software components
- 1) Find existing implementations of component parts (e.g. WebRTC – Unknown User (wassim.filali)mentioned there are implementations available, let's point to them)
- 2) What parts still do not exist - need to be developed
- And of course: Confirm the overall demonstration use case and plan to guide the breakdown.
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram
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Unknown User (niskandar) Unknown User (wassim.filali)
Minutes
- Wassim sent a link before the meeting. A very useful documentation page describing the principles for Audio Focus in the latest AOSP is this page:
https://source.android.com/devices/automotive/audio/audio-focus - Quick updates for Suhasini who is 'glad to be back'. Continued focus on external-audio track is good.
- We reviewed last week quickly and decided to do offline reading of the documentation and come back next week for more discussion.
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Participants
Chris Simmonds (part) Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali)
Apologies
Minutes
CI/Testing
Gunnar: Shortly about Go issues sorted out. Both Lava and Go.CD updated to latest versions. Go now behind NGINX proxy (it used to handle its own SSL/TLS but this is more standard). Some breakage to sort out -- large artifact transfers were being truncated, etc. NGINX settings sort this out.
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Introduction from Philippe
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Participants
Minutes
Thursday 18 February 2021 - 11:30am CET
Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin
apologies: Gunnar Andersson, Nadim Iskandar, Suhasini Raghuram, Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Discussion on AVB/TSN and hypervisors and virtio between Wassim and Stephen; will continue next week
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Update regarding the platform
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- Main Question. What is more interesting, how do we go futher?
- Networked Audio (Breakdown reworkAVB Workshop and Discussion)
- Piotr: maybe if we can study topics outside of Android to offer solutions that are not on the plate of Android. This could be even added to Android.
- Android control (Android and System Level Audio)
- How can we deal with this? how much custom code do we need?
- Wassim: I think here there are more hanging fruits
- Both approaches shouldn't block each others.
- Networked Audio (Breakdown reworkAVB Workshop and Discussion)
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin @Chris Simmons(2net)
Minutes
Discussion about
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Philippe Robin
Minutes
Discussion about the AVB and next steps or topics to do (but we cannot reach the conclusion without Piotr)
- let's refer back to Breakdown rework AVB Workshop and Discussion.
- Networked audio devices: detailed good enough the AVB (Topics and priorities)
- AVB is not a solved problem but there are no more comments
- If we say Android needs to talk to ALSA devices, and AVB is a network between them, then the networking problem is solved
- If the AVB is sent to another ECU, then we also need the control → point number 2
- The focus should be on how cross ECU should work
- The third points: Audio Effects should have two parts, hardware audio effects and virtual effects
- Not sure if we are taking notes only or should we write this in the epics.
- Gunnar: is it a solved problem in the industry? Is there a real solution that can be used right now in production?
- Stephen: from a hardware point of view, AVB had a lot of improvement
- Software side, in early day it was considered too complex but people are demystifying it
- What track should we look at from our side?
- Wassim: interest: point number 2 is a low hanging fruit. Point number 1 is a bit more complext and needs a hardware etc. Audio Effect would be the next priority
- Gunnar: Audio project is more about defining the functions and API for transfering and controlling audio between the sources and the sink.
- the point number 2 is more like a remote control (from a smartphone for examle). But this topic was in GENIVI many years ago as part of multimedia. But we should pick up existing work to make it happen again if we go in this direction.
- media and media control should be separated from pure audio design
- Wassim: we have media control and volume control. volume is managed differently in Android. so we could revisit the Media control but the interfaces are already present in Android. The question here is more : i have an external amplifier and i want to control the volume without loosing the sync with Android: this is an open point. → so point number 2 is more like an Audio Control subject. We can look at Android and System Level Audio
- Gunnar: but so we could work on an interface to have in the infotainment system that would have control over the master volume and other media controls
- Wassim: the image in Android and System Level Audio is a bit outdated. After some research, Android does provide an interface for the media control but not for the volume
- Gunnar: MQQT could be used as a carrier to expose some information to the mobile phone for a remote control of the media for example
- Wassim: yes but when we receive a signal, do we bypass Android or we would feed it in the Android service
- Gunnar: so we would need to investigate what Android is exactly providing in order to check if we need an alternative
- Wassim: yes the first step should be a deliverable review document detailing what Android can and cannot do regarding this control API.
- Agreed (from all)
- Gunnar: maybe we can also take more opinions
- Google partner would give a benefit of the pre-release notes in order to check what are the upcoming changes in the APIs
- Gunnar: then we have a direction to go → learn what the system can do.
- Wassim: First question that comes to mind: the car audio manager could have pre-defined policies. If we want we can add plugins to it. The question is: does the car audio manager allows C++ custom plugins or pre-defined XML files?
- Stephen: There should be something like this because of all the cases of early audio in Android systems
- TODO: check the Jira if the discussion was captured in tickets of Jira to work on them
- Created a Jira ticket for this. @All: please have a look and create sub tasks to provide feedback about the topic in parallel to Wassim
Jira server JIRA columns key,summary,type,created,updated,due,assignee,reporter,priority,status,resolution serverId 121ddff2-c571-320f-9e4d-d5b9371533bd key AASIG-119
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson
Apologies
Minutes
Review of the backlog for audio HAL
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Philippe: talking about the FOSDEM presentation, if some time is left we could mention the backlog tasks.
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Thursday 17 December 2020 - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL CW50)
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk
apologies: Wassim Filali, Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
How to get help on the Kingfisher board
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Virtual open source conference. GENIVI was recommended to give a talk (Fosdem: biggest open source conference). If we submit anything to the Embedded Mobile and Automotive dev room, we need to have strong code examples.
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Mohan Karthik Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Continuing the session about Network Audio Synchronization and answering questions
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Johan Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence Mohan Karthik Chris Simmonds Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Wassim giving a session about Network Audio Synchronization (many additional information came from Mohan Karthik)
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Going through the list of prioritized topics:
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Thursday - 5 November - 11:30am CET
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram, Unknown User (wassim.filali), Chris Simmonds
Minutes
Review of the list of prioritarized topics
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Thursday - 1 October - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram Henric Carlsson
apologies: Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Review the work breakdown structure and update it to get a shared knowledge of the project status before preparing the agenda of the AHAL working session at the tech summit
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Philippe Robin Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (wassim.filali) Suhasini Raghuram Henric Carlsson Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Updates from last meeting:
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Thursday 17 September - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali)
Minutes
Discussion on demo implementation status
Thursday 10 September - 11:30am CEST
Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin
Minutes
Discussion on configuration & demo building & integration of the emulator project, followed by Jira review
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Discussion on feature content for MS3 demo (MS3 = virtual tech summit scheduled on October 26-30) Gunnar Andersson can you add the notes you took during the call ? thanks
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Participants
Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Henric Carlsson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Going through the previous minutes of the meeting.
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Gunnar Andersson Stephen Lawrence Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Going through the previous minutes of the meeting.
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Participants
Philippe Robin Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence Piotr Krawczyk
Minutes
Going through the previous todo list:
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Stephen Lawrence
Minutes
Alternative board for Suhasini, any upadte on that matter?
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Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Henric Carlsson Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Should the minutes be more like a transcript?
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Participants
Unknown User (niskandar) Gunnar Andersson Unknown User (zafirulhassan) Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Unknown User (zafirulhassan)
Minutes
Looking at the history, the best course of action here is to go through the Jira tickets and assign them to start working on them.
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Henric Carlsson Stephen Lawrence Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar)
Minutes
Let's start by going through the points that we have gathered last time in PoC Milestones and Work Breakdown.
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Participants
Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) @Henric Unknown User (zafirulhassan)
Minutes
Introduction to members and new member Zafirul
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) @Henric
Minutes
Debriefing of the virtual summit
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Participants
Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) Unknown User (niskandar) Philippe Robin Andrii Chepurnyi Harald Bartholomae Ruslan Shymkevych Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk @Henric
Minutes
Going through the presentation of Wassim
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW18 AUDIO_HAL_CW18
Thursday 30 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW18)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW18 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW18 |
Participants
Philippe RobinSuhasini Raghuram Unknown User (wassim.filali) @Henric Ruslan Shymkevych
apologies: Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek)
Minutes
Review of Ruslan's email of 23 April - archive
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW17 AUDIO_HAL_CW17
Thursday 23 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW17)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW17 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW17 |
Participants
Philippe Robin Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Suhasini Raghuram Unknown User (niskandar) Unknown User (wassim.filali) @Henric
Minutes
Updates of the tasks done from last week: Wassim, Piotr, Nadim
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW16 AUDIO_HAL_CW16
Thursday 16 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW16)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW16 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW16 |
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Suhasini Raghuram Ruslan Murtazin Unknown User (niskandar) Unknown User (wassim.filali) Andrii Chepurnyi @Henric
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- Discuss the gathered topics, who can work on which topics and which strategy
- Status update on the "access raw streams"
Minutes
Changes done in this page Android and System Level Audio:
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Anchor AUDIO_HAL_CW15 AUDIO_HAL_CW15
Thursday 09 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW15)
| AUDIO_HAL_CW15 | |
| AUDIO_HAL_CW15 |
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek)Andrii Chepurnyi@Henric Suhasini Raghuram Stephen Lawrence
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- from last week's minutes
- Discuss the gathered topics, who can work on which topics and which strategy
- Status update on the "access raw streams"
- AOB
- abstract of the GENIVI virtual tech summit AASIG Audio HAL workshop
Minutes
list of gathered topics on multi-zone audio management
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Thursday 02 April - 11:30am CET (AUDIO_HAL_CW14)
Participants
Philippe Robin Gunnar Andersson Piotr Krawczyk Unknown User (bartoszbialek) Unknown User (wassim.filali) Andrii Chepurnyi Unknown User (niskandar) @Henric Suhasini Raghuram
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- Slides from Wassim about the two models inside and outside of AA
- discussion of the cases/features that we are trying to solve
- checking the Audio Manager to decide whether or not it needs an update
Minutes
- 2 strategies or options:
- android provides sources and sinks
- Android controls the complete systems
- We will not discuss the need to have such options
- Basically some functions cannot be integrated to AA
- Audio sources coming from android or from external (android not aware of them)
- Each strategy has limitations and can be criticized
- Idea is to get each model and apply to it questions/cases
- Questions like safety sources, raw streams, etc.
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