Meeting Minutes
4 September 2024
- AMM and post AMM presentation plan
- Ansgar on panel
- Shankar and I - cross industry demand - John Ellis
- Shankar presentation on insurance needs - send deck for input (Stefan and Ted) and addition to AMM agenda
- Philippe, Ansgar and myself on Ecosystem as part of CV track -
- Swen (Endava) on Thursday / dry run today
- aiden VISS demo, relation to CV
- regrets from Ulf but confirmation from aiden
- Insurance update and PR response
- Future proofing signals versus contemporary representation of mainstream vehicles
- Basic data sampling campaign as primary focus - ADAS/AV advanced a secondary
- https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2023-10/R160E.pdf
- meta data on data quality - not in VSS but could be in CV data campaigns
28 August 2024
- Workshop or not - 11 or 18 Sept, fallback is pack into AMM CV tech track
- shifting to latter, review on main wiki page
- Cohesive Cloud Architecture slides
- Insurance breakouts during regular call break
- Start of alignment with Open Telematics Framework
- CVIS update
21 August 2024
- Planned agenda - defer due to summer slowdown attendance
- Insurance breakouts during regular call break
- Workshop or not - 11 or 18 Sept, fallback is pack into CV tech track
- Cohesive Cloud Architecture slides
31 July 2024
- Reminder, no meeting next two weeks
- Available if people want to further work on any area
- Set date for kickoff workshop Proposed 11 or 18 September - meeting with Ford co-chairs today
- FIDO getting involved in COVESA, meeting with them next week
- Privacy architecture discussion
- EU Data Access Act, EUDI - Self Sovereign Identity
- Taken together with GDPR, to sell a connected vehicle in the EU one will need to capture consent to collect data, must make it available, and optimize the user experience most likely in a way where the identity/authentication provider is not siloed
- Workshop agenda input/update
24 July 2024
17 July 2024
10 July 2024
- Recap of last week
- Stefan's issue and signals
- Reviewing individually offline
- Going to VSS call in coming weeks
- Update on Curve logging in Eclipse SDV Fleet Blueprint demo - data PR merged and demo works
- Discussion on necessity of time series and absence of a timestamp in VSS
- Time more a function of API or data-broker - when is the data collected, broadcast, event based?
- COVESA Board decision on Expert Group proposal expected later today, potentially a new co-chair from Ford
- Expert Group kickoff/Workshop planning see main page
- Summer slowdown - plan on 7 and 14 August off
3 July 2024
- Insurtech use case
- Moter to propose initial set of signals for data collection campaign
26 June 2024
- Update on CV Expert Group proposal to COVESA Board
- Scope, additional signaling in break out group, additional verticals (EV and Insurance)
- OEMs interested, Ford willing to co-lead
- Challenges and hesitation from OEM to enable
- Need for consent management/opt-in, privacy
- Potential elation to AOSP group - UX for capturing consent, push notifications for insurance/fleet driver coaching, remote routing suggestions for fleet. Data collection more likely to take place in TCU or be done by OEM and made available to third parties in the cloud
- Plan is to continue work as incubator group and work on marketing, materials to hold a kick-off workshop in early September before AMM
- Insurance data campaign coming together and to be made available at future CV call
- Diagrams for information architectures to support a more robust ecosystem will be on a subsequent call as well
- We have previously explored consent and privacy in CV BoF, should incubate and ensure alignment before forming a separate Expert Group for it and other ecosystem topics
19 June 2024
12 June 2024
29 May 2024
22 May 2024
- Charter outreach - confirming participation intent for scoped items
- (OEM, insurance) - suggestions
- Input on group name given scope and previous confusion\
- Fleet, Commercial and [Insurance] Expert Group
- Volvo car playing with curve - Bosch's demo from AMM being redone and recorded
- Insuretech alignment on VSS marketplace vertical (Fleet, EV and Insurance) (MOTER and possibly Allianz)
- Reviewing FMDG for overlap, will work on insurance data sampling campaign (basic and advanced)
- Commercial Vehicle Information Specifications (HIM and VSS overlay) - separate task force under Expert Group
15 May 2024
8 May 2024
- AMM debrief
- AOB
- Charter Scope
- Upgrade from BoF to Expert Group
- Common Data Sampling Campaigns
- Fleet Management Data Guidelines (VSS marketplace)
- EV Range Prediction (Ford, Geotab)
- Insurance (MOTER)
- Other?
- Organize and align signals lists for specific campaigns
- In-Vehicle API (VISS)
- ACEA FMS (Bosch)
- ATA TMC RP1226 (Bosch, Morey)
- Additional / Hierarchical Information Models (Ulf HIM)
- DTC and fault codes
- Control Unit firmwares' version numbers
- Trailer (Great Dane, Volvo Group)
- Tractor to trailer interface (wired, WLAN, other)
- Upfitting (refrigeration, salt spreader, plow, sirens) - (Ford, Bosch)
- HD truck/bus not adequately represented already in VSS
- Driver Profile*? (limit scope, coord w/ AOSP, CVI, other)
April 2024
- Link to AMM CV track agenda/slides
19 February 2024
12 February 2024
- HAL4SDV - EU projects
- Eclipse SDV example towards SDV Alliance as a demonstrator
- 3 potential projects worth open sourcing regardless of whether accepted in this program
- Cloud2cloud - create a test server w/ VSS, CV guidelines on data points - cloud platform agnostic
- in-vehicle edge
- v2c serialization (see PR from Adnan, transmission
- Endorsements now on the landing page, encourage participants to provide ones as well
- Use case[s] for limited PoC
- Group vitality, wide variation in attendees from week to week
- A few OEMs have wandered in and out, one willing to pilot with Geotab but not part of COVESA and don't think they want to be out in the open
- How to improve outreach?
- Need to put the different aspects of CV activity on the table and see which people want to work on building out more
- Schedule discussions with appropriate people from Stellantis, GM and Ford
5 February 2024
- Endava introductions, engineering company
- Endorsements for landing page
- AMM PoC and Tech track
- 3-5:30 on 17th and can spill over onto Thursday
- mapping from RP1226, already done for rFMS.
- Use case for PoC
- Looking for input from Wally on use case and availability of data from TMC fleet
- Feedback on Business case to sell OEM
18 & 25 January 2024
- RP1226, aligning other efforts
4 December, 2023
- FMS - goals:
- Agreement to use VSS in the cloud, leverage existing mapping for translation
- Follow CV BoF recommendations - what signals are collected and how they are sampled
- What is missing in current FMS? OEM only focus of FMS - lacks perspective of fleet customers' data needs
- What are we missing in CV BoF recommendations? - likely takeaway - ongoing coordination on signals/sampling
- EU regulator influence on data access - saw article @link? about passenger vehicle OEMs considering FMS
- FMS has transport protocol but not focused on data being sent - unsure if passenger car OEM will coordinate on this level as much as EU HD OEM
- ISO 21434
Neutral Server/Extended Vehicle - has a transport but not a common data model - any relation with FMS?
- SDV Hackathon on Fleet Management
- various things connected to LinkedIn, common hashtag #
- work done in a private github repo - avoid legal issues
- 6-7 challenges, Rust eco-system, effort to combine different container solutions** - at least 3 different ways to handle containers currently in SDV
- Elektrobit container management
- RedHat System D approach
- 4 teams chose fleet management challenge
- created a dashboard, MQTT in the background to inject data into the system
- group looking at profiles - more useful for rental vehicles (relate to ELD in NA?)
- sourcing data for testing
- group wanted to perform analytics and extended range of signals being collected by FMS forwarded - unsure what they added
- Fleet Management Blueprint setup was straight forward, allowing developers to start using/adding onto it instead of wasting time
- Configuration for sampling campaigns - Node Red was used for rapid prototyping
- was too large a topic to solve in a short hackathon
- emphasis was to understand FMS forwarder (Rust component of SDV Fleet Blueprint) and extend it
27 November, 2023
- Preview landing page
- VSS needs to be emphasized more up front
- Requesting review, promotion and endorsements
- Fleet Management Systems (FMS)
- EU HD truck and bus telematics standards - OEM only group*
- Uses J1939 (rFMS/J1939 mapped to VSS)
- Technical deep dive set for 14 December, 2023 (2h), FMS leadership and reps from the 6 HD OEM
- Commercial Fleets are a mix of different classes of vehicles, rest of which do not use J1939
- Goal is to convince them on the importance of higher level abstraction
- Prove VSS abstraction can be moved to vehicle edge
- Questions raised by FMS:
How would FMS Standard look like in a COVESA API? (AutoSAR collab update on Thursday, also Bosch CV Blueprint - Eclipse SDV)
What are your plans to extend the COVESA VSS with commercial vehicle data? (HD specific branches can be added to VSS, much already there. VSS accepts contributions, want HD OEM SME to provide)
What is the status of development of the COVESA vehicle API? (update from AutoSAR)
Do you have a demo available? (yes, Bosch to present)
- What to present/demo and which goals to emphasize?
- Like FMS group to participate in CV to advance guidelines or at least some of their member companies
- Tech demo ready
- Higher level pitch based on what we've used - shorter version of AMM presentation (15 min max) ACTION ITEM: Ted to condense deck and share with Thomas by email, group on next call
- Anchor on VSS, including mapping
- provide links for follow up, wiki with its slide decks and recordings, landing page and github
- YAML of sampling campaign overlay
- Revisit top issues introduced last week
20 November, 2023
13 November, 2023
Reaction to previously presented conventions, introduced
How to handle alternate sampling conventions
06 November, 2023
Tooling & .csv converter topic
- no comments or offers for support so we continue here between geotab and etas
FMS-update
- Carlton explained again the background of why J1939 is a good std to abstract into our guidelines using the VSS data model
- potentially missusing overlays or need another DEG discusion required
- explained about the wishes from the fMS standards group that SAE J1939 causes them issues/cost due to being so closely copupled to CAN and HW
> (melissa request) Create an overview of what data is actually relavent for each additional field we are proposing for VSS overlay
> do we define our own DSL (data sampling Language) for measuring the data or do we want to change VSS
-currently DEG (data expert group) is discussing this topic and thinking that they need to have a way to managed this for specific vehicles
J1939 questions
- Some OEMs even considering replacing CAN with IP in the future
how do we get VSS to become protocol agnostic
- Melissa asked if we want to do something with the data >
- How do we do "plug and play" HW > can the CV BoF be a place that we also focus on this aspect of CV upfitting etc
- Suppliers & Tiers will need to focus on the lower level abstraction (ford opinion)
Cummins focus:
- Cummins to support for the FMS topic > we really need to focus on the fleet beenfits aspect
UNECE1516 direction = Operations: Warranties status & SW updates for all makes/models/components could be highly beneficial
- Should there be some sort of standard defiend in the control layer for updates etc in COVESA
23 October, 2023
- AMM debrief
- recap of AMM, encourage viewing of recordings especially for consent management
- Interest in consent management and agreement more of a tangent, not essential for commercial fleet vehicles but for other sampling efforts
- EV range prediction - additional data sampling campaign interested in using the same conventions as commercial fleets
- ETAS SDV Blueprint
- Business track
- Landing page in progress
- Alignment with other efforts
- Mobility Data Space - related to Catena-x
- ITXPT - similar to VDV, has a certification program - ensures compatibility across offerings - in our charter scope as a possible deliverable
- FMS
- Issues
- Sampling configuration directives in use by participants, preferably open standard/convention
- VSS Tools and overlays - after we have mockup YAML
11 October, 2023 at AMM
- (recordings and slides pending)
- Business track
- Technical track
25 September, 2023
- COVESA AMM track (2h tech track, plus a bit on business) - title, abstract, presenter name
- Overview/recap and example sampling config
- EV range prediction and start of representation in sampling config
- ETAS PoC
- Consent management AiDEN
- EV range prediction artifacts
- Map provider needed - Google, HERE, OSM - Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC)? / W3C Spatial Data on the Web
- Represent sampling - time, distance, event, other. SOSA/SSN (ontology and too complex)
- Privacy/Consent - ambitious but we have a number of pieces and opportunity
- Explicitly which data points will be collected (CV BoF in VSS)
- How they will be used (again CV BoF. use cases are the start of purpose for GDPR). We will use constants for names of use cases as some pertain to multiple signals in order to avoid being too repetitive, side benefit is this can be useful for localization (accommodating descriptions in other languages)
- Who is collecting the data and how to revoke consent, who is easy and can add entity name or URI to the VSS overlays in CV BoF and same for revokation interface URI. Would need to research if there are any standards around consent and revokation APIs or if this is something AiDEN is willing to propose.
- A common interface in the vehicle to interact with driver to capture consent - AOSP activity in COVESA and if generalized enough can by used on QNX and other OS instead of Android specific but worth going for the lower hanging fruit of an Android solution.
- AOSP activity with decent energy at COVESA, CV BoF also off to a good start
- VSS/VHAL mapping in AA prototype was completed, interest in making VSS more central/prominent in AOSP
- Some OEM are reluctant to provide rich data to the head unit and AA, that's fine we can simply capture consent and the data sampling campaign can be triggered to act on that on a TCU
- AiDEN's platform includes consent management for Android Automotive platform, it impressed as being well thought out, intuitive, crisp UI that well informs the individual
- We would need to convey consent was captured either by current driver (who could remain anonymous), owner and driver was informed that consent is explicit and immutable by operator, data will be collected and their recourse if they disagree is to contact owner and not operate the vehicle. What is sent to the data back end would need to be defined. In W3C Auto Working Group a PhD student and his prof have come up with a "sticky policy" to capture this, maybe too complicated for OEM who would prefer to keep it simple.
Strong industry need to handle privacy, has EU OEM tied in knots
- Open issues from Github
11 September, 2023
- Ford EV Range Prediction Team presents
- Recording, Slides
- Research performed at Ford under an EU grant to come up with Correction Factors (CF) based on in-vehicle observations and various external factors (weather, road conditions, altitude changes etc)
- Data sampling campaign can utilize the conventions for collecting EV specific data that is being proposed in the CV BoF
- Discussion on merits, interest to prove out
- Resources (algorithms, data collection techniques used, etc) can readily be opened as the EU research is intended to be public
- Agreement to align efforts
- Github repo created, issues created
- Desire to switch from bi-weekly to weekly cadence
28 August, 2023
- Introductions
- Attendees: Thomas Sprechley (ETAS), Paul Boyes (COVESA), Pierre Pierre Blais (BlackBerry), Ted Guild (Geotab), Sven Jeroschewski (Bosch), Sri Palacharla(GM), Melissa Morris(Ford), Richard Fernandes(GM), Jeff Reid(Google)
- How we'll work
- Spreadsheet as an initial convenience
- All deliverables and issues should be in github, repo requested
- Major announcements to group mailing list, conversations and heads up in slack
- Outline or proposed work
- Open to additional topics to explore
- Additional signal sampling campaigns that can follow these conventions, speaking with EV range prediction this week
15 August, 2023