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This page intends to contain the agenda for next VSS meeting (Tuesdays 16.00-17.00 CET) and notes from previous meeting. At the bottom is a template for the agenda. General agenda points like discussion on PRs and issues may be skipped if discussion on prioritized topics takes too long time.

See COVESA Common Meeting Schedule for meeting link. The meeting is open to anyone.

General Agenda

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

...

  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized Topics:
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Discussions VSS
  • Discussions VSS-tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes  2024-07-02

...

  • Paul: Want to get proposals for technical presentation by end of July, finished by end Mid August
  • Erik on business trip next week (Adnan back?)

Meeting notes  2024-06-25

  • API Standardization charter - > Listen in to the CVII meeting after the VSS meeting if you like
  • VSS-tools PRs
  • VSS PRS
  • VSS Issue (Daniel Alvarez)

Meeting notes  2024-06-18

Agenda  2024-06-11

  • Actuators -

Meeting notes  2024-02-13:

Agenda  2024-06-04


  • AMM Info
    • Novi, Detroit-area, USA
    • 25-26 Sept, on 24th opportunity to have technical F2F sessions, related to VSS or other
    • Paul: Good to take the opportunity F2F
    • Erik: We need to start thinking on possible topics, especially for the 24th, also for 25-26th
  • VSS Release Status - VSS 4.2 released - https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/releases/tag/v4.2
    • OK to remove pre-release tag
  • Presentation - Sending VSS data with Protobuf
    • By Kaan Bulut, Student at Techn Univ Munich, Thesis done in collab with BMW
    • Multiple options
      • Generate messages for all leafs (flat)
      • Generate all message as key (key-value pair)
      • vpec2protobuf -hierarchy of messages
    • Compaibility - backward/forward/full

Image Added

Image Added

Meeting notes  2024-05-28

Meeting notes  2024-05-21

  • Future of VSSo (Paul)
    • There has been proposals on modeling fron Ford and BMW
    • Paul is happy to help if someone wants to drive it forward
    • Gunnar: The proposal from Swen - adding info on source of data items, has been discussed, adding metadata or ontology
    • Gunnar: Found some drafts on layers, we should put them somewhere

VSS Layers was discussed in Cloud & Connected Services project, end of 2019 and beginning of 2020.

The VSS Layers draft was attached to the page.
Direct link: https://wiki.covesa.global/download/attachments/12124613/VSS%20composable%20layers%20-%20draft%2020200114.pdf?api=v2

Minutes from CCS are here, but there is a lot…
https://wiki.covesa.global/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=12124613


Meeting notes  2024-05-14

  • VSS Release 4.2
  • "GraphQL as VSS Language"-info
    • Adnan: The presentation from Swen Schisler could be good as a COVESA blog post
    • Paul: To check
    • References

Meeting notes  2024-05-07

Meeting notes  2024-04-30


Meeting notes  2024-04-23

VSS-Tools PRs

  • 343 to be merged
    Python active support until 2026
  • 344 has to be checked and reviewed
  • 346 to review and merged
  • 347 to be checked by Erik, how to automate version

VSS-Tools Issues

Close issue 194 it is merged now.

Vspec PRs

  • 731 stays open 
    - PierPierB 
        - Comments are documenting summary of the discussion.
        - euro ncap is quite interesting document and it would be great to use this as base for the alignment of this topic.
        - Stefan will check as well with Allianz
  • 737
    - Resolution might be limited(Stefan)
    - What about orientation of screen?
    - What is the main usage and do we have any usecases? Are we missing anything on top.
  • 659
    • Ppb new comment reference to euro cap 


Issue VSpec

  • 735 related to issue spec to franca


We had new visitors.
Sivashankar Yoganathan
AB: Do you have myb some use cases or requirements to share?
SY: We could do exchange and understand requirements.
SY: what is missing is frequency of the signals, but we can discuss more details
SY: possible exchange in two weeks, 
AB: slot in the meeting for 15-20 min. 10min presentations, 10 min talk. cca 07.5.2024
StefanS: Would be great to have this discussion

New people from MOTER that joined us 
Mohair Yadav from Ford as well.

ViSS status.

Ulf and Peter
- Ulf: ViSS is stabilised in covesa repo and everyone can use it
- Peter: demo went well as well on the side of Volvo 

Meeting notes  2024-04-18 (April 2024 AMM Working Session on Raw vs. Derived signals):

  • The definition of derived signals is not as straightforward as the definition of raw signals
    • Distraction levels of 0% and 100% are clear but what does 66% or 34.5% distracted really mean?
    • Should distraction really be represented as a percentage? Or, perhaps an enum?
  • Units are one way in which clarity can be achieved
    • Requires introspection (ability to ask the model) support in the API or equivalent
  • Even if enums are used to "bucketize" or categorize the values, interpretation of what each bucket means is still important or not necessarily clear
    • For example, what is a crash and severity of crash can have different interpretations depending on culture, context, etc.
    • Same for aggressiveness
  • How could we make available information on how a signal is derived?
    • Where it may be needed or useful
    • How can this be expressed to the user?
    • Does it need to be digital?
  • Margins of error and calculations may vary in time
    • Remaining distance based on fuel consumption varies over time
    • Some signals from which a derived signal is generate may become unavailable or become available again
    • The rate of incoming signals may affect the derivation
    • How do we plan to repesent this?
  • Even an OEM may not know how some signals are derived
    • The Tier-1 may have their own way of doing the derivation and this is not available to the OEM
  • What is a raw signal?
    • Is there such a beast?
    • Clearly there are some, but perhaps the great majority of signals are derived?
  • Would adding all the information discussed above impact simplicity?
    • One main goal of VSS is simplicity
    • Perhaps less precise definitions of signal values is actually simpler
  • Should we define the set of parameters to evaluate in order to decide if a derived signal should be added to the signal catalog?
    • Is portability of applications (where they can rely on a "standard" definition of a signal) a concern?
      • And therefore should the signal catalog only contain clearly defined signals as opposed to leaving definition to interpretation?
    • Options to consider:
      • Determine if the signal should be made part of the catalog or left for manufacturers to add using overlays
      • Require that signal definitions refer to a standard
      • Allow liberal interpretation, but mention in signal definition comments that interpretation is left to the implementation

Meeting notes  2024-04-09:

  • Crash detection/events - car immobilized
    • Stefan: Do we have anything?
    • Adnan: PRs welcome
    • Erik: Sometimes we create a temporary *.md file and add it to PR for discussion.. PPB to put down initial thoughts in *.md
  • AMM
    • No regular VSS meeting next week
      • Erik has asked Paul to delete
    • VSS Deep Dive being prepared by Sebastian Schildt
  • Head& Eye
  • VSS-tools
    • A lot ...

Meeting notes  2024-04-02:

Meeting notes  2024-03-25:

Meeting notes  2024-03-18:

  • AOSP
    • Merge ok
  • VSS vs. VSS-tools compatibility
  • Overlay and remove
    • Shall new keyword "state" be considered to be part of "std VSS syntax", i.e. described in VSS doc
      • Alternative is to consider it just as a VSS-tools-specific feature
    • https://github.com/nwesem/vss-tools/pulls
    • Adnan: Does not really understand the use of active/inactive
    • Daniel: Is it intended only for exporter, or also other function
    • Adnan: Inactive/active fills a different purpose, not needed for vss-tools for purpose of removing signals of tree
  • Terminology:
  • AMM

    • Topics for discussion:

    • Raw vs. derived signals; does VSS need to define or state how signals are derived?
      • Is this useful to clients?
    • For signals derived through ML; should confidence level, variance, precision, error, etc. be reported?
      • Is this useful to clients?
    • How should model-generated derived signals such as "driver attentiveness" be represented (in the absence of a standard)?
      • Confidence percentage? Enum?
    • To what level of specificity should VSS describe signals?
      • Leave semantics to OEMs (flexibility for OEMs but affects portability) or define them precisely?

Meeting notes  2024-03-12:

  • Adnan -overlay and remove node
    • See https://github.com/nwesem/vss-tools/pull/2 - not ready for official VSS repo yet
    • Keyword "deleted"
    • Comments welcome
    • Pierre Pierre: Interested, will share some feedback. We have thought of a private "x-delete" but better if public/agreed
  • AMM Planning
    • We should plan content for the VSS Working Session Wed 16.45-17.30. Here is one possible agenda, but it can be adapted as needed if there are other topics someone wants to bring up.


      Agenda


      • 5 minutes – introduction to VSS maintainer team (i.e. Erik, Adnan, Sebastian) and general requirements if we should refactor VSS
      • Recap & Way Forward (10 min each) – Quick recap of the topic and discuss if there is anyone that wants to drive the topic.
        • VSS Type Representation and Reusable Properties
        • Tree vs. Flat Structure
        • Instance Handling
        • Overlays
      • Other topics (10 min)

      A potential abstract for the official agenda could be something like below, unless someone else has a better proposal:

      “ At the last AMM we discussed several potential improvement areas for VSS like property support and refactored instance handling. In this session we will continue the discussion and align on VSS roadmap for 2024-2025

    • Discussion
      • PPB: Value discussing various concepts (40 minutes)
        • A number of signals are "raw" signals, others derived. Sometimes it matters how they are derived
        • Driver attentiveness/sleepiness, what is meaning of 63% sleepiness, how to handle confidence
        • VIN - is static/attribute, what should we do we signals if value comes regularly but never change
      • Erik: Would be great if you present it PPB
      • Daniel: Aspects of having derived information, all participants of the driving env. Concentrate on model, rather than individual signals like VIN - have a session 4:00 PM - 4:45 PM Wed (Towards a Vehicle DATA Specification), but would like to have some time in working session as well
      • Paul: need agenda, slides does not be prepared
      • Paul: There might be remote participants
    • AP: PPB to prepare slides
    • AP: Erik to propose agenda/abstract
  • VSS data (time series) discussion
  • VSS Release Planning
    • https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/689
    • Erik: "5.0 Only" - only some minor signal rename and datatype changes, but they have been for quite a while
    • PPB: The delete functionality could be nice to have in 5.0 - a major capability
    • Erik: That would be ok, good to announce that 5.0 will include delete
    • Erik: working assumption - wait with 5.0 until delete-functionality

Meeting notes  2024-03-05:

  • Info - COVESA Spotlight on VSS featuring RemotiveLabs March 14th 16.00 CET
    • See community calendar
    • Will likely be recorded
    • Erik: DEG 14th will likely be cancelled
  • NOTE: Daylight changing in US next week, note that all COVESA meeting should be anchored in EU timezones
  • Paul: AMM schedule is full/finalized, official site shall be up to date, check https://www.eventleaf.com/e/AMMGothenburg2024 and report errors to Paul

Meeting notes  2024-02-27:

  • Introduction
  • Info from maintainer (Erik)
    • Closed all issues issued <=2021 with no interaction in 2023 or 2024. I.e. >2 years old and >1 year of inactivity. Feel free to reopen if you consider topic still relevant.

Meeting notes  2024-02-20:

  • AMM VSS Topics - Topic proposals
    • VSS Working Session 9.45-11.30 Wednesday (DEG also have some time for working sessions)
      • Moved to afternoon 15.30-17.30 for allow for remote participation
    • Anything particular someone wants to bring up or present?
    • Suggestions:
  • General AMM
    • Still possible to propose slots to Paul but filling up
  • New and old PRs
  • New issues
  • Issue handling - general
    • What to do with issues where there has not been any progress in many months
      • Keep forever or decide on an auto-close policy?
        • Should be doable at least for suggestions/discussions
        • For limitations/defects - possibly manage elsewhere? Like in documentation for the related tool.
    • Example: Signal Accuracy - https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/105
      • Possible improvement area, but no-one seems to be interesting actively driving it
    • Example: Emission standards - https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/394
      • Possible improvement area, but no-one seems to be interesting actively driving it
    • Issues are of different types today, some maybe fit better as discussion, but also then we have a question on how long we want them to exist
      • Possible improvement areas
      • Actual limitations/error (which no-one intends to fix)
    • Proposed Handling (to be discussed):
      • Close issues after 6 months of inactivity
      • If we have agreed/decided something in the discussion - reflect that in VSS or VSS-tools documentation before closing the issues
      • If the issue concerns a known limitation/error, then document that in a file for known limitations in the repo
        • Example: Generator vspec2something  cannot handle the signal name ggg as that is a a reserved word in something .
    • MoM:
      • Daniel: think it is good to have something, so that issues are decreasing
      • No objection to closing inactive items
  • Android tooling
    • https://github.com/COVESA/vss-tools/issues/192
    • Erik:
      • My assumption is that we want to keep the work but that no-one intends to create a real tool out of it in the next year(s)
      • Suggestions:
        • Create a better branch name and add a wiki page explaining purpose of the branch
        • Or integrate it into current as "prototype"
      • MoM (old): Think about it, discussion to be continued
      • MoM: No opinion

Meeting notes  2024-02-13:

Meeting notes  2024-02-06:

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