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This page intends to contain the agenda for next VSS meeting (Tuesdays 16.00-17.00 CET) and notes from previous meeting. At the bottom is a template for the agenda. General agenda points like discussion on PRs and issues may be skipped if discussion on prioritized topics takes too long time.

See COVESA Common Meeting Schedule for meeting link. The meeting is open to anyone.

General Agenda

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized Topics:
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Discussions VSS
  • Discussions VSS-tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes  2024-04-09:

  • Crash detection/events - car immobilized
    • Stefan: Do we have anything?
    • Adnan: PRs welcome
    • Erik: Sometimes we create a temporary *.md file and add it to PR for discussion.. PPB to put down initial thoughts in *.md
  • AMM
    • No regular VSS meeting next week
      • Erik has asked Paul to delete
    • VSS Deep Dive being prepared by Sebastian Schildt
  • Head& Eye
  • VSS-tools
    • A lot ...

Meeting notes  2024-04-02:

Meeting notes  2024-03-25:

Meeting notes  2024-03-18:

  • AOSP
    • Merge ok
  • VSS vs. VSS-tools compatibility
  • Overlay and remove
    • Shall new keyword "state" be considered to be part of "std VSS syntax", i.e. described in VSS doc
      • Alternative is to consider it just as a VSS-tools-specific feature
    • https://github.com/nwesem/vss-tools/pulls
    • Adnan: Does not really understand the use of active/inactive
    • Daniel: Is it intended only for exporter, or also other function
    • Adnan: Inactive/active fills a different purpose, not needed for vss-tools for purpose of removing signals of tree
  • Terminology:
  • AMM
    • Topics for discussion:

    • Raw vs. derived signals; does VSS need to define or state how signals are derived?
      • Is this useful to clients?
    • For signals derived through ML; should confidence level, variance, precision, error, etc. be reported?
      • Is this useful to clients?
    • How should model-generated derived signals such as "driver attentiveness" be represented (in the absence of a standard)?
      • Confidence percentage? Enum?
    • To what level of specificity should VSS describe signals?
      • Leave semantics to OEMs (flexibility for OEMs but affects portability) or define them precisely?

Meeting notes  2024-03-12:

  • Adnan -overlay and remove node
    • See https://github.com/nwesem/vss-tools/pull/2 - not ready for official VSS repo yet
    • Keyword "deleted"
    • Comments welcome
    • Pierre Pierre: Interested, will share some feedback. We have thought of a private "x-delete" but better if public/agreed
  • AMM Planning
    • We should plan content for the VSS Working Session Wed 16.45-17.30. Here is one possible agenda, but it can be adapted as needed if there are other topics someone wants to bring up.


      Agenda


      • 5 minutes – introduction to VSS maintainer team (i.e. Erik, Adnan, Sebastian) and general requirements if we should refactor VSS
      • Recap & Way Forward (10 min each) – Quick recap of the topic and discuss if there is anyone that wants to drive the topic.
        • VSS Type Representation and Reusable Properties
        • Tree vs. Flat Structure
        • Instance Handling
        • Overlays
      • Other topics (10 min)

      A potential abstract for the official agenda could be something like below, unless someone else has a better proposal:

      “ At the last AMM we discussed several potential improvement areas for VSS like property support and refactored instance handling. In this session we will continue the discussion and align on VSS roadmap for 2024-2025

    • Discussion
      • PPB: Value discussing various concepts (40 minutes)
        • A number of signals are "raw" signals, others derived. Sometimes it matters how they are derived
        • Driver attentiveness/sleepiness, what is meaning of 63% sleepiness, how to handle confidence
        • VIN - is static/attribute, what should we do we signals if value comes regularly but never change
      • Erik: Would be great if you present it PPB
      • Daniel: Aspects of having derived information, all participants of the driving env. Concentrate on model, rather than individual signals like VIN - have a session 4:00 PM - 4:45 PM Wed (Towards a Vehicle DATA Specification), but would like to have some time in working session as well
      • Paul: need agenda, slides does not be prepared
      • Paul: There might be remote participants
    • AP: PPB to prepare slides
    • AP: Erik to propose agenda/abstract
  • VSS data (time series) discussion
  • VSS Release Planning
    • https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/689
    • Erik: "5.0 Only" - only some minor signal rename and datatype changes, but they have been for quite a while
    • PPB: The delete functionality could be nice to have in 5.0 - a major capability
    • Erik: That would be ok, good to announce that 5.0 will include delete
    • Erik: working assumption - wait with 5.0 until delete-functionality

Meeting notes  2024-03-05:

  • Info - COVESA Spotlight on VSS featuring RemotiveLabs March 14th 16.00 CET
    • See community calendar
    • Will likely be recorded
    • Erik: DEG 14th will likely be cancelled
  • NOTE: Daylight changing in US next week, note that all COVESA meeting should be anchored in EU timezones
  • Paul: AMM schedule is full/finalized, official site shall be up to date, check https://www.eventleaf.com/e/AMMGothenburg2024 and report errors to Paul

Meeting notes  2024-02-27:

  • Introduction
  • Info from maintainer (Erik)
    • Closed all issues issued <=2021 with no interaction in 2023 or 2024. I.e. >2 years old and >1 year of inactivity. Feel free to reopen if you consider topic still relevant.

Meeting notes  2024-02-20:

  • AMM VSS Topics - Topic proposals
    • VSS Working Session 9.45-11.30 Wednesday (DEG also have some time for working sessions)
      • Moved to afternoon 15.30-17.30 for allow for remote participation
    • Anything particular someone wants to bring up or present?
    • Suggestions:
  • General AMM
    • Still possible to propose slots to Paul but filling up
  • New and old PRs
  • New issues
  • Issue handling - general
    • What to do with issues where there has not been any progress in many months
      • Keep forever or decide on an auto-close policy?
        • Should be doable at least for suggestions/discussions
        • For limitations/defects - possibly manage elsewhere? Like in documentation for the related tool.
    • Example: Signal Accuracy - https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/105
      • Possible improvement area, but no-one seems to be interesting actively driving it
    • Example: Emission standards - https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/394
      • Possible improvement area, but no-one seems to be interesting actively driving it
    • Issues are of different types today, some maybe fit better as discussion, but also then we have a question on how long we want them to exist
      • Possible improvement areas
      • Actual limitations/error (which no-one intends to fix)
    • Proposed Handling (to be discussed):
      • Close issues after 6 months of inactivity
      • If we have agreed/decided something in the discussion - reflect that in VSS or VSS-tools documentation before closing the issues
      • If the issue concerns a known limitation/error, then document that in a file for known limitations in the repo
        • Example: Generator vspec2something  cannot handle the signal name ggg as that is a a reserved word in something .
    • MoM:
      • Daniel: think it is good to have something, so that issues are decreasing
      • No objection to closing inactive items
  • Android tooling
    • https://github.com/COVESA/vss-tools/issues/192
    • Erik:
      • My assumption is that we want to keep the work but that no-one intends to create a real tool out of it in the next year(s)
      • Suggestions:
        • Create a better branch name and add a wiki page explaining purpose of the branch
        • Or integrate it into current as "prototype"
      • MoM (old): Think about it, discussion to be continued
      • MoM: No opinion

Meeting notes  2024-02-13:

Meeting notes  2024-02-06:

Meeting notes  2024-01-30:

Meeting notes  2024-01-23:

Meeting notes  2024-01-16:

  • VSS 4.1 Released
  • AMM April 16-18 Gothenburg, Sweden
    • Technical Sessions Planning in progress
  • CES - big interest in VSS
  • Digital Key
  • Overlay problem
    • Adnan:
      • Overlay (to redefine/overwrite attribute or add attributes) is case sensitive, could result in two signals.
      • How to prevent it?
      • Alt 1: Do a case insensitive merge (keep orig name)
      • Alt 2: Give warning if diff just by case somewhere (and error if in strict mode?)
      • If warning - handle it like they are the same
      • Will possibly create PR
  • New VSS PRs
  • VSS-style issue (enforce style, allowed values)

Meeting notes  2023-12-19:

  • VSS 4.1
  • Screen mirroring - https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/pull/699
  • Issue690
    • BMW use processing w overlays, what makes sense in VSS is to create separate file with conversion factors, which could be used for conversion. Repetition in vss-tree would be too much to handle.
    • When we are all back present the proposal from Erik
    • Daniel: We could use examples for different APIs
    • Erik: AP to present possible solution Jan 16th
  • FMS/ACEA
  • Meeting Jan 9th cancelled due to CES
  • Next official meeting Jan 16th - create issues or bring up topic on slack if needed
  • Catena:
    • Paul Boyes - when you will you send out invitation?

Meeting notes  2023-12-12:

  • Catena-x topic.
    • Adnan: We had some discussions about VSS and Catena.
    • Achim: Proposal on how to harmonize activities.
    • Achim: Find alignment among companies that are willing to contribute.
    • Achim: We should be prepared for the catena extension and make alignment there. Next step: Ford, Bosch, BMW to find alignment regarding vehicle domain.
      Paul Boyes will setup a meeting.
  • Overview VSS-Tools, VSS.
  • Issue 690 - continued discussion.
    • Nick prepared overview on how to handle units.
    • Adnan presented high-level approach he uses at BMW.
    • Erik to present solution proposal. We need more input.
  • Meeting pause for christmas/new year? 26th and 2nd of January we will take a break.

Meeting notes  2023-12-05:

Meeting notes  2023-11-28:

Meeting notes  2023-11-21:

Meeting notes  2023-11-14:

  • Prioritized Topics
    • Release Preparation
      • Static id PR status - no news
    • 5.0?
      • Pierre: We can add "5.0" signals as overlays, so we can use torque as overlay.
      • Decision: Keep 5.0 on hold, open up to release 5.0 in April/May (or earlier if needed)

Meeting notes  2023-11-07:

  • Prioritized Topics
    • Release Preparation
      • Decision needed - shall we only release 4.1 and not 5.0?
        • Potential rationale: The only "major changes" we have is unit/datatype/semantic change of 5-10 signals. Historically not sufficient for a "major" release, or?
        • Working assumption: We do not release 5.0 now as no requests, plan for spring instead
        • AP: Erik to check with Pierre Pierre Blais if Blackberry sees a value in a major relase now
        • If your organization wants a 5.0 before Christmas, please let us now
        • AP: Erik to update 4.X branches (cherry pick)
      • Timeframe static id change
        • Adnan: working on hash support in addition to sequential id, compared 64 bit sv 32 bit hash.
        • Adnan: For hashing path, type, unit and datatype is used
        • Erik: we could create new pr from niclas fork if needed

Meeting notes  2023-10-31:

  • Prioritized Topics
    • Static UID - draft PR at https://github.com/COVESA/vss-tools/pull/305
      • New script vspecID.py 
      • Give vspec files as both input and output
      • You can specify prefix with "gen-layer-ID-offset", first 64 reserved for COVESA. WIth id layer 4 bytes, otherwise 3 bytes
      • Adds a staticUID string, like '0x02345678'
      • "--validate-static-uid <old.vspec>" gives option to keep/replace if changed, if compatible (like name check)
      • You maintain static id files yourself
      • Once you have the generated .vspec/ .yaml, then with overlay you can run all other tools, like vspec2json
      • Erik: Can be included in minor release, as it does not affect UUID
      • Pierre: The Blackberry model serves the same purpose, different approach
      • Pierre: How to manage addressing by old name, if name is changed.

Meeting notes  2023-10-24:

  • Prioritized Topics:
    • Summer time alignment
      • Ends Oct 29 Europe
      • Historically COVESA meetings often anchored in European time zone
      • Currently conflict - VSS anchored in european, but CVI anchored after
      • Suggestion - keep european time for VSS next week, move CVI
      • AP Erik Jaegervall to sync with Paul Boyes 
      • AP: Send out reminder on slack
    • Copyright
      • AP: Erik Jaegervall to follow up with Paul Boyes 
      • Conclusion: Go with proposal
      • AP: Erik update PR for next meeting, then please review
    • (U)UID:
    • General info from Paul
      • Please put company name in zoom "user name" - make it easier to understand who you are talking to

Meeting notes  2023-10-17:

  • Prioritized Topics:
    • AMM recap
      • VSS discussion points
        • Erik showed some slides
        • AP: Erik to summarize response/comments (See VSS_workshop_comments.pdf)
        • AP: erik to create issues for topics that seems to have traction, so that we can make decision
        • Adnan: Daniel Alvarez wanted to create proposal related to model/ontology, align with proposal from Alan
        • Erik: Shall we possibly do a similar presentation online "evolvement workshop" in January?
        • Paul: Seems good
        • AP: Paul to propose date/time for a session in late January
    • JSON schema


Meeting notes  2023-10-03:

  • Prioritized Topics:
    • VSS session AMM Thursday
      • Intention to discuss Ford/Blackberry proposals as well as other recurring topics
      • AP: Check with Paul - join the two sessions
      • Will someone from Ford (Alan?) and Blackberry (Pierre?) participate?
        • Ford possibly remote
        • Pierre will leave at lunch Thursday

Meeting notes  2023-09-26:

Meeting notes  2023-09-19:

  • Prioritized Topics:
    • Tero from Profilience introduced him self.
    • COVESA Spotlight - BlackBerry IVY, next after this meeting, they will show how they use VSS
    • 4.1-planning - UUID, any timeplan
      • Adnan: Draft PR in about 3 weeks,
      • Erik: Great if draft ready before AMM
      • Adnan: Concerning instances, have id for "top" definition (class) rather than individual instances
    • Struct support and DDSIDL

Meeting notes  2023-09-12:

Meeting notes  2023-09-05

Meeting notes  2023-08-15

  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized Topics:
    • Anything VSS related things we/you want to do at AMM
      • BlackBerry looking into having a demo and presentation
      • COX automotive will attend
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting
    • Erik and Adnan on holiday next two weeks, should we cancel one? We might discuss in Slack. Make the decision early enough so it can be cancelled via Shared Calendar by Paul Boyes 

Meeting notes  2023-08-08

  • General Topics
    • COX automotive → automatic mapping of data source
      • Ulf: no active work at the moment. Trend is existing but we would have to push the activity.
      • Adnan: Volvo is working on this topic and they have presented work on last AMM in Porto.
      • V.Raiker (Ford) - Interest for a WS on the next AMM
      • Paul Boyes Could you please create wiki page where we can collect requirements for automatic mappings and as well existining activities.
  • PR Status
    • No new PR or issues.

Meeting notes  2023-08-01

  • Presentation of VSS and Spread by Daniel Wilms
    • Presentation coming
  • Adnan:  Pull request on example shown in latest interface workshop

Meeting notes  2023-07-18 (Draft)

Meeting notes  2023-07-11

  • Notes taken in issues/PRs

Meeting notes  2023-06-27

Meeting notes  2023-06-20

  • No prioritized topics
  • Please check Defining the COVESA data modeling strategy and its associated artifacts as it tries cover also other domains. Add comments/question in wiki
  • Syntax checking (related to https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/599)

    Meeting notes:

    - Daniel: See https://wiki.covesa.global/display/WIK4/Defining+the+COVESA+data+modeling+strategy+and+its+associated+artifacts, would be better to have a standard format like RDF as source format.
    - Erik: So let tools use on RDF directly and generate other format from that?
    - Daniel; yes, still have *.vspec as experts but generated to RDF - let RDF be official format.
    - Fulup: Do not think people will parse from RDF directly, vspec->RDF->json seems complicated
    - Ulf: Keep YAml/vspec as single source of truth. It should be possible to generate RDF
    - Erik: Is a vspec2rdf tool all we need (short time)
    - Daniel: vspec2ttl already partially do it
    - Paul: Important to not slow down VSS progress
    - Fulup: Would love to have a tool that let my select which parts and get a normalized output with normalized quotes

    -Pierre: Isn’t RDF more restrictive in its syntax than YAML, which would make conversion from YAML to RDF somewhat difficult?
  • We would likely have to put some restrictions into what can be represented in YAML so that it can be converted to RDF.
  • Paul: A session with data guys would be helpful. RDF is well established
  • Erik: Maybe would be good to agree on a long-term roadmap for VSS source format and tooling, what do we want the source format and tooling to look like in 5 years
  • Paul: Will arrange a more in-depth session

Meeting notes  2023-06-13

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized Topics:
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes  2023-06-06

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


Meeting notes  2023-05-22

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • DCO Github app (rather than action)
    • "Service APIs"/functions call still of interest. Questions: How would it fit with the VSSo proposal/The "HIM" proposal. Adnan maybe to provide some information how they handle it internally

1. Decide on name for the evolved data model.

2. Create a new COVESA Github repo based on the new name.

3. Decide on a directory structure that can accommodate rule set definitions for multiple domains and multiple information types.

4. Create a rudimentary README on the top level giving a high level description of the new data model.

5. Move the VSS "rules definition" (the documentation) from the VSS repo to an appropriate directory on this new repo.

6. Create a rule set for services that that meets the requirements from the "passenger car domain" (VSS).

7. On the VSS repo, create an initial service tree based on the rule set from the bullet above. Continue to evolve it in parallell with the existing VSS tree.

8. Analyze the impact on VSS-Tools that the above has, take action on the insights from that.

9. Try to influence the W3C automotive group to evolve VISSv2 to support the new data model.

10. If successful on the above bullet, create a new COVESA project that will develop a POC containing a technology stack based on the evolved W3C interface and COVESA data model.

    •  Discussion:
      • Ulf presented the proposal above
      • Erik: Will be discussed in DEG group, VSC relationship to be sorted out.
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes  2023-05-23

(Erik will not join)

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Release 4.0 Status
      • V4.0 released  https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/releases/tag/v4.0
      • Topics addressed during RC-phase. If someone wants an alternative solution as long term solution they are welcome to create a PR
        • d added as prefix to string literals that could be numbers, like '33'. Just using _33 is not supported by all code generators working on DDS IDL.
        • Type checker for structs updated to support arrays of struct
        • Error now given if type root is not a branch (as some tools like vspec2protobuf can not handle struct as root)
      • Daniel to introduce what has been done in VSSo: Defining the COVESA data modeling strategy and its associated artifacts
        • Please read if interested, (you may post comments on the Wiki page)
        • Daniel will be back in 3 weeks to personally answer question (smile)
    • "Service APIs"/functions call still of interest. Questions: How would it fit with the VSSo proposal/The "HIM" proposal. Adnan maybe to provide some information how they handle it internally
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes  2023-05-16

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


Meeting notes  2023-05-09

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


Meeting notes  2023-05-02

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Release 4.0 Planning
    • New Issue 586.
    • Best practices - VSS design principles
      • Stephen
        • Would be good to have design principles that we can refer to, like doing X is aligned with principle Y
        • I will ask Felix and Daniel to get input, like on "what is a branch" from a data science view
        • I will drive it.
      • Daniel: I can support
      • Nick: Would be a good idea, a lot of collective opinions is not documented
        • Including how we express what language to use (american vs english), date formats, ...
      • Erik: Where to handle calls/meetings, in this or in other. This meeting is often quite busy.
      • Where/how to be synched on slack
      • Announced in this meeting.
      • Daniel: One ontology work that is ongoing is to come up with keywords, calls 30 minutes before this one, I can share link
    • Fulup presented https://github.com/eclipse/kuksa.val.feeders/issues/94
      • Concerns "security tags" in VSS - an area where COVESA might do something
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting
    • VSS 4.0 release planning
      • Remaining features
      • Date for release and release candidate

Meeting Notes  2023-04-18

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Structs Status
      • IDL: https://github.com/COVESA/vss-tools/pull/262
        • Related: https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/pull/576/files
        • Discussion:
          • Sebastian: Proposal is a bit different, new concept, nothing prevents merging PR from Krishna so old style converter support structs, or wait with both
          • Neil: Do we want to restruct existing signals in catalog
          • Krishna: Not yet
          • Sebastian - but do we want hints, if tools are "perfect"?
          • Adnan: Could be an idea to collect starting points for struct candidates (after 4.0)
          • Ulf: A signal represent a datapoint, captured at a specific time, similar approach for structs, all properties within the struct are all captured at the same point in them. fits well to GPS, but not for example door/window signals as they are not captured at same point in time.
        • Decision: Do not add IDL for 4.0
      • For VSS 4.0 - status (to be confirmed):
        • Done: Protobuf, JSON, CSV, Yaml
        • Ongoing: DDSIDL
        • Not done: Overlays, Multi -vt, Franca, Binary, Ttl (contrib), Graphql
        • Needs revisit: Documentation (to indicate status)
      • Discussion:
        • Sebastian: What is our long term approach - will struct support in long run be added to Franca, Binary, Ttl (contrib), Graphql
        • Krishna: Needs expertise support
        • Ulf: Binary will come a few weeks after AMM
        • Pierre: What if we later detect if we need to change syntax of structs to support e.g. Graphql
        • Krishna: Seems to be acceptance of releasing VSS 4.0 with limitations, but fast resolving of remaining topics wanted
        • Erik: Ok to relase VSS 4.0, plan remaining tools/limitations to VSS 4.1
        • Daniel: Could possibly contribute to TTL, dependency to VSSo, refactoring discussion in progress
        • Neil: Have we an idea what signals should be put in struct
        • Stephen: Not intending to refactor existing tree. Best practices document needed.
        • Erik: What we have said so far - structs shall be restrictevly used in standard catalog, possible candidate Position (lat/lon)
        • Daniel: Not clear to me when to use struct vs aggregate. Risk using aggregate on branches if there is no rule-set to branches. There should simple rule-set for branches in general. No clear criteria used as of today.
        • Erik: branches as of today is mostly to get unique names
        • Krishna: Overlays and doc can be fixed for relase, but can we release withou strucs
    • Release 4.0 Planning
    • Screen off PR - https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/pull/577
      • How to represent "off time" - duration or absolute time?
        • Duration in seconds
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting
    • VSS 4.0 release planning
      • Remaining features
      • Date for release and release candidate

Agenda  2023-04-11

  • Welcome and Compliance statement

Welcome to the COVESA VSS Meeting!

Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Structs Status
    • Display Idle Time - see https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/567
    • List DTCs in VSS
      • Currently there are signals for DTCs in OBD branch, but just a list of strings
      • Question: Shall we model "all" DTCs in the model?
      • Sebastian: Currently no ongoing work to model DTCs in VSS
      • V Raikar: Should signals corresponding to DTCs be represented in tree?
      • Erik: We have some signals representing errors today, but they are just boolean
      • Erik: A more specific proposal/idea would be interesting to discuss in this meeting.
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting
    • VSS 4.0 release planning
      • Remaining features
      • Date for release and release candidate

Meeting Notes  2023-04-04

  • Compliance statement


Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to be an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Structs Status
      • Textual Update - Use "ComplexDataTypes"
      • ProtoBuf - convention one file per message
      • DDSIDL - is extension style valid
    • UUID update (postponed from next meeting)
      • Adnan:
        • Idea use UUID to define signal/property, not location
        • For binary exchange we need to share schema in advance. Can we use small UUIDs. One byte to identify vendor/overlay, other two bytes for every specific leaf. Stored in a unique way.
      • Krishna: We need to optimize transfer, assign unique identifier based on VSS. Shall it be left to implementer?
      • Erik: Should be possible to support multiple UUID-technologies in vss-tools
      • Sebastian: Canonical UUIDs with clear formula so they are reproducable are great
      • Nick: Have you considered ASN.1?
    • EV-charging repository: https://github.com/COVESA/ev_charging
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
    • Please review, minor ones will be merged next week unless there are remarks
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting Notes 2023-03-28

  • Compliance statement


Antitrust
Before we begin, we would like to make clear that COVESA is committed to compliance with the antitrust laws in all of its activities, and that it expects all participants to similarly comply with the antitrust laws.  We will not engage in--and members must refrain from--any discussion of, or understandings regarding competitively sensitive topics. If you have any doubts regarding whether a matter is appropriate for discussion, please consult with your antitrust counsel.

Open and Royalty-Free
Further, COVESA aspires to the an open and royalty-free organization. The discussions and contributions made during this session are governed by the COVESA Intellectual Property policy. If you are unfamiliar with that policy, please review it in detail prior to making any contribution that reads upon a patent.


  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Consolidating structs
      • Initial exporters - approach currently to get two files, ones for signals and one for types
      • Two files may not make sense for all exporters
      • Two files pro - matches input
      • One file pros - consolidated view, self sufficient,
      • Krishna wants input - what do we want.
      • Ulf: Value in one file, but configurable (where applicable) best
      • Sebastian: We do not need to do the same for all exporters. Better to have discussion tool by tool.
      • JSON:
        • Krishna: One usage imported into other tool, would be easier with single tool.
        • Sebastian: One file better
        • Could be user option.
        • Krishna: Will make output argument optional. if not present single file will be generated.
    • UUID update (postpone to next meeting)
    • Jeremy Vaysettes (Michelin)
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes 2023-03-21


  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Albert Kos: Gaia-X - (http://www.gaiax4ageda.de/) interesting to get surrounding objects into VSS. Possible to setup a meeting?
      • Sebastian: Paul Boyes could organize meeting if needed
      • Ulf: No meeting necessarily needed, you could issue/PR.
      • Albert to start by creating issues (in 3 weeks)
    • VSS-Tools - Line endings JSON?
      • Result - no line breaks
    • Tool limitations
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes 2023-03-14


  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Intro to VSS - 16.00 CET Tomorrow
    • VSS-Tools - Line endings JSON?
      • Result - no line breaks
    • Issue 526
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes 2023-03-07

Meeting notes 2023-02-28

  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • INFO: VSS 3.1 released
    • Wanted features for VSS 4.0 end of April (before AMM?)
      • Structs support, but what more?
      • Moving documentation to new repo?
        • Meeting notes -seems reasonable
    • AMM - what sessions are needed/wanted. What do we want to cover in the workshops
      • Ulf: Slot/presentation on how evolving VSS ("multiple trees")
        • Erik: Related to charging station tree discussion, we need to discuss governance of new catalogs, like where and how shall charging station tree be stored and maintained
      • Sebastian: CAN Feeder - dbc mapping
      • Sebastian: Security approaches - KUKSA tokens changes and comparison to VISS
      • Adnan: VSSo and Taxonomy - see https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/548
    • Open PRs - quite a lot
    • VSS structure
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting notes 2023-02-21

Meeting notes 2023-02-14

  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Struct support
      • Status report
      • Exporters - how do we expect them to handle struct data
        • Struct information generated in same file or other file
        • Likely straightforward to implement support in vspec2json, vspec2csv, vspec2yaml
        • Volunteers for vspec2binary, vspec2ddsidl, vspec2franca, vspec2graphql?
          • And contrib tools: vspec2protobuf, vspec2ttl
          • Daniel Alvarez will likely look at the vspec2ttl
          • Ulf feel responsibility for binary tool.
          • Sebastian can check with those who developed vspec2ddsidl
        • AP: Erik to update or create issue to track what is needed for the major release in April
    • Workshop this week
      • Agenda at Data Expert Group - Workshop 2023 - Q1
      • All welcome
      • Attendees: erik, Ulf, Daniel (partially, 14-16 CET), Adnan, Sebastian (partially, +0.25)
      • AP: Paul to cancel related COVESA meetings during the same timeslots.
    • "Extra day" at AMM for deeper discussions, possibly Friday after AMM, possibly half-day
    • New Pull requests
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting
    • Planning for minor release (around end of February, possibly the week Feb 27th - March 3rd)
      • What to include and what not to include:
        • Possibly wait with left/right - driver/passenger conversion until major, as breaking backward compatibility

Meeting Notes 2023-02-07

  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Walk through Pull Requests and Issues VSS
  • Walk through Pull Requests and Issues VSS-Tools
  • Topics on hold
  • Older issues VSS & VSS-tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting 2023-01-31

  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Walk through Pull Requests and Issues VSS
  • Walk through Pull Requests and Issues VSS-Tools
  • Topics on hold
  • Older issues VSS & VSS-tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting


Meeting 2023-01-24

Work Package for Struct Proposal:
Details of the proposal in [PR 511](https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/pull/511/)

A. Minor release with experimental struct support  
1. vss-tools can take in a types spec file and process sensor tree and the type tree together. struct/type support will be marked as an experimental feature.
    a. Syntactic check of struct definition
    b. Semantic check of type references in sensors
    c. Demonstrate working using the JSON exporter
2. Add disclaimer/warning when customer is using experimental feature 
3. Warning in exporters that structs are not yet supported
4. Warning in overlays that structs are not yet supported
5. Experimental feature documentation
Effort: 3 weeks

B. Exporters release  
1. Add support for struct types in other text-based available exporters in vss-tools - CSV, YAML
Effort: 1 week

C. Major release  
1. Overlay support
2. Documentation update
3. Add support for non-text exporters as needed - protobuf, DDSIDL, etc.
4. Add guidance around when and how to use struct types
Effort: 4 weeks


Meeting 2023-01-17

If you have a topic you want to prioritize please add it here. We do however have the ambition to regularly discuss recent issues and pull requests, so no need to explicitly mentions a PR unless it needs to be prioritized:

  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Neil Puthuff (RTI) presenting some initial observations as new to COVESA/VSS
    • Ford proposal - Fleet based range prediction
      • Christoph Schierjott presents EV Charging Event Data Aggregation Project
      • Data upload of various data to cloud
      • Cloud calculates correction factor individually and sends down to vehicle to correct fleet range prediction
    • Power Optimize
      • Mobis Architecture
        • Intention is to have a power manager that will select scheme, either based on user request or for example based on that remaining power drops below 20%
      • Pre-information Bosch proposal
        • Erik: Bosch has some ideas on representation that will be presented in the Power Optimize meeting this week
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting 2023-01-10

If you have a topic you want to prioritize please add it here. We do however have the ambition to regularly discuss recent issues and pull requests, so no need to explicitly mentions a PR unless it needs to be prioritized:

  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • None
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Information from Paul
    • Big interest at CES
    • We need to have a bigger discussion late January or February to how to simplify use of VSS.
    • Paul to discuss with Data Expert Group (Erik, Adnan) on how to proceed.
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting 2022-12-20


  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Aggregate vs. structs - when do we see it need to be kept
      • From last week - Ulf/Erik: In favor of deprecating/removing aggregate keyword
      • Since then: Ulf requested a credible example, Erik stated that if we are to keep it we should better propose/specify how tools shall handle it
      • Adnan: Allow aggregate on deployment level, can use it when needed. For now good to only have it as information.
      • Krishna: Thinks aggregate makes changes, struct does not affect it. If we want to depricate we can do it later
      • Ulf: Does not have a strong opinion
      • Adnan: Good to document when structs vs aggregate shall be used
      • Erik: Can update the PR
      • Erik: Do you Krishna have interest in doing actual work.
      • Krishna: In January will start working on it, can help Erik
      • Erik; Then we can discuss later when we think it will be ready for VSS 4.0 release
    • Information: Overlays after expansion
      • Internal Bosch discussion if it would be better to refactor tooling so that only one parameter needed and tool is "smart enough" to deduce if given path refers to extended entity or not.
    • Discussion: PowerOptimize PR
      • Chandra: Intention to have one branch in each area, for infotainment we see brightness and audio volume
      • Chandra: Does not intend to duplicate, only want one signal, need only one
      • Erik: Isn't PowerOptimize only one of many use-cases for e.g. brightness, why need a PowerOptimize branch
      • Chandra: If scattered more difficult to find
      • Sebastian: OEM needs to decide what is part of his power optimization, do not understand the value of having them in separate branch
      • Adnan: What is difference
      • Pradeep: Adding a feature set, complete algorithm,
      • Adnan: If you are only proposing values, then it makes sense
      • Sebastian: Alternative usages could be e.g. overlay
      • Chandra: When we explain we see some signals are duplicated
      • Adnan: Best solution would if you prepare and show architecture on how it is intended
      • Adnan: Have not seen scope. Like to learn how
      • Pradeep: Do you have any public link describing how it is supposed to work.
      • Adnan: if you create some simple document you can attach it, then we can try to find best way
    • UUID elements
      • Adnan: Is anyone using UUIDs at the moment
      • Sebastian: We have never used them
      • Adnan: We saw a potential of UUID, could help versioning. We could UUID hash to validate. Has anyone any ideas. Otherwise we might create improvement proposal.
      • Sebastian: UUID are as of today generated based on tree structure.
      • Adnan: We need more, e.g. history. How do we move leave but keep UUID.
      • Sebastian: Could be a hash of only name/description/....
      • Erik: Please Adnan create an issue and ask if someone use UUIDs - if not you are free to do anything.
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting
    • Note: Dec 27th cancelled
    • Meeting as usual Jan 3rd

Agenda for Meeting 2022-12-13


  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
    • Aggregate vs. structs - when do we see it need to be kept
      • Ulf/Erik: In favor of deprecating/removing aggregate keyword
      • Erik: Seems proposal is quite stable, lets wait discussing work packages until Jrishna is back, as he seemed interested in implementing in vss-tools
    • Summary for vote of Allowed (https://github.com/COVESA/vehicle_signal_specification/issues/502)
      • vote result: allow int and float for now
    • Meeting cancellations due to new year
      • Availability of participants Dec 20th?
      • Suggest cancelling Dec 27th?
      • Availability of participants Jan 3rd? (Erik unavailable)
      • Decision: Cancel Dec 27th, wait with decision on Dec 20th and Jan 3rd
      • Availability: (Paul: all, Ted: all,  Umang: all, Ulf: all)
      • Erik to check with Adnan (and Krishna)
    • Open Pull Requests (vss+tools, except struct) - approve/object before next week.
      • See PRs
    • Information: New issue for proposal from last week
    • Information: Overlays after expansion
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting

Meeting 2022-12-06


  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting


Meeting 2022-11-29


Agenda Template

  • Compliance statement - TBD
  • Welcome and agenda discussion - anything that needs to be added?
  • Prioritized topics
  • Decision on old open PRs
  • Open Pull Requests VSS
  • Open Pull Requests VSS-Tools
  • Issues VSS
  • Issues VSS-Tools
  • Prioritized topics for next meeting



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